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I had to give a wrong answer to get the job (2017)

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Re: I had to give a wrong answer to get the job (2017)

#101

Post by raptorfactor »

crispyambulance wrote: post #77
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with some driving exam questions I have had. For example worded something like that, "does driving faster in some sections of the journey affect your planned time of arrival?" I don't remember if the wording was specifically like this, but it was something that to me logically obvious answer is "yes", but the correct answer and what they expect is "no", to show that you are a reasonable driver who won't speed un…

If I remember correctly, that question likely refers to some argument in the driving manual about speeding. Something along the lines of "speeding in most urban areas doesn't actually help get someone to their destination faster. There are always multiple traffic lights and other cars to contend with, so it's not helpful to go over the speed limit and it increases the risk and severity of an accident." It's perfectly…

Isn't there some confirmation bias (not sure if that's necessarily the correct term here, but you'll get the gist regardless) here in that you're more likely to remember the situations in which you catch up with the person who passed you (i.e. "look at this idiot getting nowhere"), and less likely to remember the situations in which that person makes a light that you don't and you never see them again? Massively depends on the specifics of the roads you're on too of course (and also how the lights are timed).

Re: I had to give a wrong answer to get the job (2017)

#102

Post by emeraldd »

zabzonk wrote: post #81
emeraldd wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It get's tricky with ambiguous subjects. If there is a concrete correct answer then yes, give that stick to your guns. If there isn't and the issue comes down to opinion and interpretation ... things get dicy ...

Well, I disagree - people are presumably paying me for my experience and successes, which will affect my opinion and interpretation. If they don't like those, then presumably they don't value my experience, and we would probably not be happy working together.

I think there's a slight confusion here. An opinion should be stated as an opinion and not treated as or claimed to be a fact. If the point in question is stated as an opinion then fine and I'd agree with you. On the other hand, saying that an opinion is the factually one true way is a big red flag on either side.

Otherwise, I'd agree with your stance completely.

Re: I had to give a wrong answer to get the job (2017)

#104

Post by bmn__ »

mnw21cam wrote: post #89
LegitShady wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was taking a firearms safety course and there was a true/false section on a test. I can’t recall what the question was specifically but it was about which laws something fell under and the main issue was the word ‘or’ - when used as a logical OR the answer was True. When used as a sort of common day ‘or’ the answer was probably false. I put false without thinking. I had everything else on the test right and part of…

What other meaning of the word "or" is there?

distinction between inclusive and exclusive or

Re: I had to give a wrong answer to get the job (2017)

#105

Post by eplanit »

He handled that gracefully, which shows very good people ("soft") skills.

One "consultant" technique I use in such situations is to say the correct thing, but while giving "credit" to the person who was actually wrong: "I think $JOE is right about $TOPIC, and what he's saying is that ". I find that many will be persuaded and are more willing to accept the correction in this form, as they're not being told that they're wrong. If they still don't agree, then I can ratchet up to more pointed criticism: "oh then I misunderstood you...but isn't there a problem then because...."; but, if you can keep bringing them in by validating at least some what of they thought, it helps.

Re: I had to give a wrong answer to get the job (2017)

#106

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

marcosdumay wrote: post #42
chrisseaton wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since it's a question of facts Is it? I think it's an opinion. How would you empirically test if the answer was right or wrong? What's on Wikipedia is also someone's opinion, isn't it? What's in a book that Wikipedia references is again someone's opinion. If you can't write a program or other set of instructions to test it... it's an opinion. 'How does Dr Foo say that MVC maps to database-server-client?' would be a…

Well, it's a matter of definitions. What means it's a completely useless and dumb question, but also that the majoritarian opinion on the relevant context is a fact. That said, I don't think I've seen MVC used with the same meaning twice... what makes the question even worse.

MVC is like OOP - it means different things to different people in different contexts, and they often contradict each other.

Apple's definition of MVC specifically contradicts the Wikipedia definition for MVC that OP gives.

https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ge...

The current Wikipedia content on multitier vs MVC is quite vague.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitier_architecture

I think "correct" is a reach here.

Stock CRUD multitier should not be confused with MVC, nor vice versa.

A company that doesn't understand the differences is a Red Flag.

Re: I had to give a wrong answer to get the job (2017)

#107

Post by wizzwizz4 »

mnw21cam wrote: post #89
LegitShady wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was taking a firearms safety course and there was a true/false section on a test. I can’t recall what the question was specifically but it was about which laws something fell under and the main issue was the word ‘or’ - when used as a logical OR the answer was True. When used as a sort of common day ‘or’ the answer was probably false. I put false without thinking. I had everything else on the test right and part of…

What other meaning of the word "or" is there?

XOR.

Re: I had to give a wrong answer to get the job (2017)

#108

Post by leetcrew »

crispyambulance wrote: post #77
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with some driving exam questions I have had. For example worded something like that, "does driving faster in some sections of the journey affect your planned time of arrival?" I don't remember if the wording was specifically like this, but it was something that to me logically obvious answer is "yes", but the correct answer and what they expect is "no", to show that you are a reasonable driver who won't speed un…

If I remember correctly, that question likely refers to some argument in the driving manual about speeding. Something along the lines of "speeding in most urban areas doesn't actually help get someone to their destination faster. There are always multiple traffic lights and other cars to contend with, so it's not helpful to go over the speed limit and it increases the risk and severity of an accident." It's perfectly…

it isn't true though. suppose there are n lanes and more than n cars, which is almost always the case in the city. if you pass someone, even just to end up stopped at the same light, you are still ahead of them in line. moving ahead by one slot is a very marginal gain, but it does add up if you pass many cars on your journey. in addition to being ahead by however many slots, eventually you will encounter step-wise jumps in travel time where you get through a yellow but the person right behind you has to stop.

over enough journeys, driving faster will always decrease your average travel time (unless you crash or get pulled over, I guess). the way to discourage people from speeding is not to tell them something obviously wrong, but to discuss the legal/safety risks and the increased gas and brake pad consumption. I understand that I can get places faster by speeding in the city, but I don't do it because, to me at least, the gains are marginal compared to the risk, cost, and stress.

Re: I had to give a wrong answer to get the job (2017)

#109

Post by mitchdoogle »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #36
Radim wrote: post #9

Heh. Happens all the time with tests and questionnaires, the choice is always frustrating: * "Does the author really mean what they are asking? Are the mistakes in the phrasing or corner cases intentional, meant to catch me, test my deep knowledge?" , or * "Is the author just not very good with logic / not thinking this through?" I go with the latter in "soft social" contexts. Never regretted it yet. This saved my hi…

Same with some driving exam questions I have had. For example worded something like that, "does driving faster in some sections of the journey affect your planned time of arrival?" I don't remember if the wording was specifically like this, but it was something that to me logically obvious answer is "yes", but the correct answer and what they expect is "no", to show that you are a reasonable driver who won't speed un…

Certainly over longer distances and highway driving, driving faster will get you somewhere faster. In city driving though, where most people drive, it is correct that speeding up for certain portions of the journey will not get you there faster since the increased speed over short spurts can't make up for congestion, stop lights, etc.

Re: I had to give a wrong answer to get the job (2017)

#110

Post by shusaku »

tyingq wrote: post #21

This isn't a great example to me. I doubt the interviewers would disagree that the actual code in MVC runs at the "application tier". I think they were just trying to elicit the idea that the model defines interaction with the database and that the view defines interaction with the browser client. That there is some relation there between MVC and 3-tier architecture. The Wikipedia snippet that disputes any relationsh…

The article really rubbed me the wrong way. It feels like the writer was insanely judge mental of interviewer, immediately thinking that he was so much smarter than the guy that he was afraid to embarrass his future boss. All this confirmed by a brief moment if body language? Give me a break.
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