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One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

theatlantic.com

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Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#101

Post by alkonaut »

ilaksh wrote: post #54

This is horrible but I think it's worse than people realize. Because this is the type of thing used to motivate world wars. Where hundreds of millions work hard to murder each other. Maybe try to find another way to stop it.

This won’t trigger war, just like the Holocaust didn’t trigger WW2.

But this could of course trigger massive international pushback in the forms of sanctions and boycotts etc, and those will unfortunately trigger even more nationalism and tension, which could eventually lead to war. In the end, there is just no way any regime treats people like the Chinese treat Uighurs without consequences.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#102

Post by celticninja »

joelbluminator wrote: post #17
celticninja wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to understand why it is the west that speaks up for these Muslims, whilst the Islamic countries remain quiet. Where is the outrage from Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Iran? Why are the US the ones accused of needing to do more? Shouldn't Islamic countries at least do something?

> Shouldn't Islamic countries at least do something? I am gonna make some sweeping generalization (how could you not when speaking about 1.5 billion people) but here goes: Not really, the Islamic world didn't care much about ISIS and the Syrian civil war, both of which killed and displaced millions of people. The only place where Muslims pay attention to regularly and express outrage is Palestine as far as I know. I…

So when they claim to hate the abuse Muslims face in the west, really they mean they hate the west and the abuse Muslims face there is just a handy tool. They don't really care about Muslims they just care about being outraged.

Just your common or garden religious zealots then.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#103

Post by celticninja »

toberoni wrote: post #12
celticninja wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to understand why it is the west that speaks up for these Muslims, whilst the Islamic countries remain quiet. Where is the outrage from Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Iran? Why are the US the ones accused of needing to do more? Shouldn't Islamic countries at least do something?

The victims are humans first (their religion shouldn't be a concern) so I don't find it surprising that many Western people speak up for them. I would be happy to see more opposition from Islamic countries though.

I agree. I expect the west to call it out. I also expect the Muslim world to call them out. They are currently failing to walk the walk.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#104

Post by yunohn »

ModernMech wrote: post #95
benrbray wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of Americans were very outspoken against the Vietnam and Iraq wars, among other blunders. Plenty of us find the state of American politics absolutely deplorable. There is no shortage of critics. Sure, there is plenty of room for improvement. I wish more people cared about social and economic issues, and I wish those who did care were more willing to act. But at least in America it's part of the conversation.

This brings to mind the South Park episode "I'm a little bit country" (Episode 100) Hancock: Mr. Franklin, where do you stand on the war issue? Franklin: I believe that if we are to form a new country, we cannot be a country that appears war-hungry and violent to the rest of the world. However, we also cannot be a country that appears weak and unwilling to fight to the rest of the world. So, what if we form a country…

Thank you for finding this, it really does illustrate my thoughts quite hilariously.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#105

Post by cbHXBY1D »

thinktankie wrote: post #87
bsd44 wrote: post #78

I remember watching video footage of fabricated camps in the Balkan wars made by CNN and BCC in the mid 90s (I forgot the name of the video hosting website that was popular back then), following years of similar articles. Nothing changed really, people are as dumb as they ever were and even easier to manipulate nowadays. Americans and their allies are responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in the Middle East…

Thank you. This is an important comment in a world lacking nuance and cynicism of mainstream media narratives. I don’t know what it will take for Americans not to be mislead once again by evidence as flimsy as satellite images and vials of washing powder.

Yep. Keep in mind that the writer is a separatist who works for Radio Free Asia (a CIA cutout). RFA has pushed several false testimonies from Uighurs in the past few years. For example, RFA pushed the claims of Mihrigul Tursun, who claimed to have been sent to a camp, seen 9 women die, and that they killed one of her newborns. All evidence (hospital records, etc) and testimonies from her family members have shown those claims to have been fabricated. Her son is alive in Egypt and she was never sent to a vocational training camp. [1]

Radio Free Asia weaponized the story of a young boy drowning [2]. They pushed the claims of Sayragul Sauytbay who says she was for forced to work in a camp... which again was shown to be a lie. Her family members explain how she was never in a camp and how she fled to Kazakhstan because of defrauding a rural credit co-op. [3]

There's an active propaganda campaign going on right now. In my opinion, this is the biggest lie since the Nayirah testimony or the WMD lie.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsQxjFCh5zU

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjy_4xP5lpU

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmO8aT692jU

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#106

Post by bmn__ »

djrogers wrote: post #61
FemmeAndroid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't successfully pull the article, just the introduction by a different author than the one attributed.

It's pulling the same article I see on The Atlantic now

You are mistaken. The Outline link only has the introduction (1500 words) by Freeman, the Atlantic article is ten times longer.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#107

Post by enriquto »

shadowgovt wrote: post #96
throwaway316943 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think 99% of Americans certainly have the stomach for it. The 1% that derive their income from skimming the difference created by cheap Chinese labor don’t.

The 1% definitely skim more, but the entire American economy benefits from China trade. Every single item stamped "Made in China" gets more expensive if the scale of embargo or sanctions were attempted that would have political impact on China. It's easier to count the shelves in Walmart that aren't full of those products than the shelves that are. Wall street would feel it, but the impact on "main street" would also…

Your argument works the same regardless of the atrocities committed by your trading partner. At some point the citizens of your country will need to decide wether their economic well-being merits bearing that responsibility.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#108

Post by pas »

9999px wrote: post #99
cannabis_sam wrote: post #98

I’m always wondering what makes people work for this kind of surveillance apparatus… In this concrete situation: Are they convinced of the party line that this is “combatting terrorism”, is it a civic duty, simply out of fear, or is this just me being ignorant about Chinese society?

The counter-terrorism system they've conceived is worth learning about. They basically erred on the side of "too much surveillance, but alive" over "bomb them all 'til they're dead." Given the near complete absence of terror in the region over the last few years, I'd say it worked to some end.

There's plenty of state terror. So in terms of QALY it's pretty close to being dead.

Re: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps

#110

Post by [deleted] »

enriquto wrote: post #107
shadowgovt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1% definitely skim more, but the entire American economy benefits from China trade. Every single item stamped "Made in China" gets more expensive if the scale of embargo or sanctions were attempted that would have political impact on China. It's easier to count the shelves in Walmart that aren't full of those products than the shelves that are. Wall street would feel it, but the impact on "main street" would also…

Your argument works the same regardless of the atrocities committed by your trading partner . At some point the citizens of your country will need to decide wether their economic well-being merits bearing that responsibility.

[deleted]
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