Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#101

Post by refurb » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:21 PM UTC

yaitsyaboi wrote: post #23

raincom wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many drug cartels in Mexico get their training from the retired army personnel from Israel, USA. So, what can the USA/Israel do in such a case? Either ban any training given by retired folks; or give fat pensions to such people and make them sign agreements that prevent any private training whatsoever.

Why would the US or Israeli militaries be powerless to say "you can't use your training to help train up cartels and if we find out about it, that's your ass"?

Because the military can’t tell people no longer in the military what they can and can’t do?

I mean, Congress could pass laws, but then you’d need to define a cartel, prove it in court, prove they were training, etc.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#102

Post by geoduck14 » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:39 PM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #68

baybal2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them? Because they spawn outfits who ram airplanes into skyscrapers. I see no logic in this, but some "expert geopolitical strategists" do. Same with Israel, sinks USS Liberty, and then people on the hill go orgasmic, because "higher meaning" — whatever that means. A simpler explanation which seems…

One of the teachers at a major Israeli military university claims that Israel is intentionally acting like a mad dog i.e. willing to take down the rest of the world with them should they go down, and that most European capitols are a target for their airforce. Whether that's rhetoric or reality, I don't think anyone intends to find out.[0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/21/israelandthepa... https://en…

People said that about Trump. I don't think that strategy paid off for him

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#103

Post by bigbillheck » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #91

drewcoo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spent half a century fighting totalitarianism By destabilizing and ousting democratically elected leaders around the world and replacing them with our puppets? Or do you mean fighting those puppets when they became inconvenient? I suspect what happened is not the history you think it is.

> By destabilizing and ousting democratically elected leaders around the world and replacing them with our puppets El Saud was put in place as rulers of Saudi Arabia by the British, not the Americans.

But across the gulf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27état

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#104

Post by LatteLazy » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #63

RobertoG wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US public debt is denominated in Dollars, does the Saudi manufacture Dollars? If not, how could then they finance the public debt?

They sell oil for dollars. They give the dollars to the fed and 101 other institutions as loans, those institutions lend the money to the government and private groups. China does the same only they sell goods for dollars instead of oil.

(not sure why people are down voting this, it's pretty straight forwards factual stuff?)

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#105

Post by nzmsv » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

reducesuffering wrote: post #32

cycomanic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is if there is a conflict between economic and and "ethical" interests the economic interest always won (let's not even get into all the political reasons why totalitarian regimes were supported). The US (and much of the west by extension) certainly has a very spotty history of supporting democracy, especially if it was in their economic interest to support the totalitarian regime.

The US supporting democracy (or atleast classical liberal enlightenment values that would eventually lead to a functioning democracy) in Vietnam, Iraq, Korea, Syria, Afghanistan, and more has by far been a net negative economic interest. We've paid dearly while Europe mostly enjoyed social welfare benefits.

Afghanistan? Really?

You may want to look up who installed the Taliban in the first place.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#106

Post by bigbillheck » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #98

pjc50 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> classical liberal enlightenment values that would eventually lead to a functioning democracy) in Vietnam That's a strange way to talk about carpet bombing and chemical weapons. Besides, the US lost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Saigon "The Vietnamese government officially calls it the "Day of liberating the South for national reunification" (Vietnamese: Giải phóng miền Nam, thống nhất đất nước) or "Liberat…

How much do you know about the country post-war? The Vietnamese people paid a very heavy price for the North wining that war. Arguably the communists saw economic light, but plenty of people have been jailed as recently as last year for blogs they’ve written.

How much do you know about South Vietnam pre-war? (for starters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_crisis)

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#107

Post by ashtonkem » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

I think the thing that surprises me the most about this situation is that people are surprised. KSA is a brutal, authoritarian regime currently waging a nigh genocidal campaign down in Yemen, and we keep selling them ungodly amounts of weapons no matter what they do. Why wouldn’t we train their assassination squads? It’s far from the worst thing we’ve enabled them to do. I think the blockade of food that’s caused roughly 100,000 children starve to death is probably a wee bit worse, all things considered.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#108

Post by ashtonkem » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #68

baybal2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them? Because they spawn outfits who ram airplanes into skyscrapers. I see no logic in this, but some "expert geopolitical strategists" do. Same with Israel, sinks USS Liberty, and then people on the hill go orgasmic, because "higher meaning" — whatever that means. A simpler explanation which seems…

One of the teachers at a major Israeli military university claims that Israel is intentionally acting like a mad dog i.e. willing to take down the rest of the world with them should they go down, and that most European capitols are a target for their airforce. Whether that's rhetoric or reality, I don't think anyone intends to find out.[0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/21/israelandthepa... https://en…

I genuinely doubt the Israeli Airforce could take on the rest of Europe. There are a lot of warplanes patrolling the Mediterranean Sea.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#109

Post by ashtonkem » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #84

pope_meat wrote: post #2

Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them?

Oil is often singled out and important not because the US is dependent on Saudi oil but also because it depends on the Saudi's not dumping oil and undercutting the prices of US producers (and thus bankrupting them). But, I'd say it's more complicated than that and also is related to trillions of dollars in trade, military funding, contracting, etc across the region. The Saudi's are a very loyal supporter of US policy…

CA consumes a non trivial amount of KSA oil, 21% of total supply in 2018.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#110

Post by the_only_law » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

swarnie_ wrote: post #76

pvaldes wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does America's ex-military personnel really teach people to dismember bodies? Would be that more evil than throwing tied men and women alive to the sea from helicopters so they drown, while kidnapping their babies at the same time? I don't think so.

Its a testament to the US military that i can't tell who you're referring to here.

They’re likely referring to Pinochet, the dictator the US had installed in Chile. He was known to throw people out of helicopters for things like wrongthink, which of course is a funny meme now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights#Chile_under_Augu...