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I will never not talk about my depression

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Re: I will never not talk about my depression

#101

Post by t0mbstone »

fastasucan wrote: post #94
shkkmo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an uncharitable response. There is nothing in this comment that implies the person posting it is not depressed. I think there is a very fair point being made about the privilege of having the possibility of a four month vacation to deal with mental health issues. For many people, a four month break from one's responsibilities has a strong likihood of resulting in homelessness and/or permanent harm to…

> There is nothing in this comment that implies the person posting it is not depressed. Well there is, the wording itself: ".. I was depressed". I was.

Was, and still am, if I'm being honest.

Re: I will never not talk about my depression

#102

Post by carapace »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #53
carapace wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suffered from bad depression in my youth. Couldn't get a haircut or buy new shoes, things like that. I think the worst moment came when I was so depressed I just stood there in my room. I couldn't even lie down. No way to explain that to a normal person. One day my mom said, "I know you're not faking this because no one would deliberately be this miserable." It was more comforting than you might imagine. - - - - (I…

Unless you're dealing with con artists, the “pseudo” in “psuedoscience” is usually the explanation. I don't doubt Freud was able to help a lot of people, but I do doubt his explanations of what it was exactly that helped, and why.

> the “pseudo” in “psuedoscience” is usually the explanation

Explanation of what?

I would say that NLP is non-scientific or pre-scientific, yet you can find practitioners and promoters who claim it is scientific, so to that extent NLP is pseudoscience. The trouble is that detractors use the label "pseudoscience" to cast shade on the whole thing, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

The techniques developed under the rubric of NLP are rigorous and repeatable. E.g. the phobia cure or the "Visual Kinesthetic Squash" are like algorithms, in the sense that they are concrete patterns that work to create specific changes. They have been tested and refined and the essential elements boiled down to render specific steps without extraneous elements. A person can learn a pattern like the phobia cure and apply it to cure phobias. So there is a kind of rigor and repeatability that distinguishes NLP from the vast majority of schools of psychology.

> I do doubt his explanations of what it was exactly that helped, and why.

One of the most interesting (IMO) aspects of NLP is that Bandler and Grinder were very careful not to speculate as to how or why these patterns work, they refused to develop theories. The patterns were developed operationally without trying to find explanations or stories for what was going on in the brain that made them work. So no one knows why the "VK Squash" works. No one knows why the phobia cure works. But they do work. And sometimes they don't, so you try something else. It's not scientific, it's operational: do what works.

Re: I will never not talk about my depression

#103

Post by t0mbstone »

_zzaw wrote: post #81
shkkmo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an uncharitable response. There is nothing in this comment that implies the person posting it is not depressed. I think there is a very fair point being made about the privilege of having the possibility of a four month vacation to deal with mental health issues. For many people, a four month break from one's responsibilities has a strong likihood of resulting in homelessness and/or permanent harm to…

If I'd thought that's what they meant, I would have reacted differently. Perhaps I misinterpreted it—I'd agree 100% that most employers are not nearly as understanding or generous as they should be regarding disability leave. But I was not the only one here who felt that the tone of the comment came a little too close to the "wow, I sure wish I could have a nice vacation if I was feeling sad" business that most of us…

Depression and mental issues have a huge amount of stigma here in the USA. If I told my employer I wanted time off because I was depressed, there is an almost zero chance that I would get any meaningful support other than being allowed to use my limited PTO that I have accrued.

I do pay for both short and long term disability, but as far as I know, Long-term disability (LTD) insurers are generally reluctant to approve claims for benefits based on mental illnesses such as depression or bipolar disorder.

Additionally, I would have to deal with the newly acquired stigma of being "that depressed guy with mental issues".

Taking it even further, if someone admits that they have suicidal thoughts, this can easily result in having ALL of their rights completely stripped away. You can be forcibly hospitalized and medicated against your will, entirely on the word of someone else. You will also no longer ever be able to pass background checks, own a weapon, or be hired for many types of jobs.

I know all of this for a fact because it happened to my ex-wife, who developed schizophrenia in her early 20's (after we were already married) and became bi-polar and suicidal. After years of going in and out of the system and being put on countless medications, she ended up killing herself.

The USA really really really hates people who are mentally ill.

Re: I will never not talk about my depression

#104

Post by t0mbstone »

rspeele wrote: post #21
t0mbstone wrote: post #2

Wow, I wish I could just go on sick leave for 4 months because I was feeling depressed...

It's objectively a privileged position to be able to do that and not become homeless, but I wouldn't wish for it. Have you ever had a day at work or during your schooling where, due to burnout, depression, anxiety, lack of direction, laziness, whatever... you just got nothing done? Maybe you wasted all your time reading/writing emails; browsing the web; etc? I have had some days like that. And if I worked in a factor…

I have been working my whole life. I have been working professionally as a web developer and software engineer since I was 13 years old. I am 37 years old with 24 years of professional experience.

During that entire time, there were only a couple of periods where I had more than a month off of work. Each of those times were when I was in between jobs and was trying to find new work, so I don't really count those periods as vacations.

I'm just so tired of the grind. I just want a long break to do nothing. I want to do nothing until I'm literally sick of doing nothing. I imagine that when/if that happened, I would be able to find my passion again. I'm not sure if it would look anything like the type of work I've been doing for years, but I agree with you. I realize that long term happiness is usually tied to creativity.

Re: I will never not talk about my depression

#105

Post by t0mbstone »

uniqueuid wrote: post #8
t0mbstone wrote: post #2

Wow, I wish I could just go on sick leave for 4 months because I was feeling depressed...

Depression is a major illness (ICD-10: https://icd.codes/icd10cm/F329 ), there is nothing slight about it. Getting treatment and going on leave if you have the option is definitely the right thing.

Long-term disability (LTD) insurers are generally reluctant to approve claims for benefits based on mental illnesses such as depression or bipolar disorder.

Re: I will never not talk about my depression

#106

Post by t0mbstone »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #16
t0mbstone wrote: post #2

Wow, I wish I could just go on sick leave for 4 months because I was feeling depressed...

Do you suffer from depression and wish that your employer would recognize it as an illness?

I suffer from depression and don't even want my employer to know. There is too much stigma against mental illness here in the USA.

Re: I will never not talk about my depression

#107

Post by gonehome »

mumblemumble wrote: post #22
gonehome wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I agree with you - I think what I'm trying to say is more nuanced and super easy to misinterpret (even in good-faith). It's not about putting a happy face on, but about seeing yourself as a 'depressed person' or as having depression being a core part of your identity. I think that can be harmful - and lead to weird psychologies where being depressed is more comfortable in a way, more familiar. Being open/honest…

Frankly, it is a core part of one's identity. It's not just feeling sad sometimes. It's a chronic condition that colors everything about how you see and experience the world. If you forget that or ignore it, it starts to take over, and your grip on reality is liable to start to erode.

I think whether or not you make something part of your identity is a choice. This sounds like our core disagreement.

I think choosing to have something bad be part of the core of how you view yourself is harmful. There’s some evidence to back this up iirc (things like people involved in shootings being interviewed immediately after and then again months later - those that had issues recovering made it part of their identity, those that didn’t - didn’t).

If there are strategies to avoid harm I want to know what those are. If there are bad strategies I want to throw them away.

People can do what they want, but I wonder if defending and reinforcing someone’s identity as a victim does more harm than good.

In general I think people are way overconfident about what the “right” thing is here and what’s actually happening or what the best way to get out of it is.

Re: I will never not talk about my depression

#108

Post by t0mbstone »

gfody wrote: post #6
t0mbstone wrote: post #2

Wow, I wish I could just go on sick leave for 4 months because I was feeling depressed...

depression eventually gets you to the point that you can't work no matter how critical that employment is to your well being you just stop showing up or quit in a mental breakdown. sick leave is a nice alternative and i agree it must be nice to have that option but when you say "feeling depressed" vs being depressed i think you have the wrong idea about it.

What do you call it when your wife who you deeply love develops schizophrenia and bi-polar tendencies less than a year after you get married and then you sacrifice your 20's to take care of her only for her to end up killing herself, and then you feel sad and try to block the sad memories that make you feel depressed by working all the time and putting yourself to sleep every night for the next ten years by drinking alcohol?

I consider myself to be a high-functioning, depressed alcoholic. Most people who know me have no clue I'm depressed.

Keep in mind, I'm not suicidal. I just often find myself feeling sad and like life is ultimately pointless, and I try to find ways to self-medicate so I don't notice the sadness as much. I also feel severely burnt out, even though I enjoy my job which pays well (which is a very strange paradox that I can't explain even to myself).

Re: I will never not talk about my depression

#109

Post by shkkmo »

fastasucan wrote: post #94
shkkmo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an uncharitable response. There is nothing in this comment that implies the person posting it is not depressed. I think there is a very fair point being made about the privilege of having the possibility of a four month vacation to deal with mental health issues. For many people, a four month break from one's responsibilities has a strong likihood of resulting in homelessness and/or permanent harm to…

> There is nothing in this comment that implies the person posting it is not depressed. Well there is, the wording itself: ".. I was depressed". I was.

The "was" is inside of a "could" statement which usually means that it is a subjunctive tense and not a past perfect tense. This means that the tense is probably indicating that the intent is talking hypothetically. We don't do a good job of distinguishing these tenses on English but they do exist.

Re: I will never not talk about my depression

#110

Post by shkkmo »

t0mbstone wrote: post #103
_zzaw wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'd thought that's what they meant, I would have reacted differently. Perhaps I misinterpreted it—I'd agree 100% that most employers are not nearly as understanding or generous as they should be regarding disability leave. But I was not the only one here who felt that the tone of the comment came a little too close to the "wow, I sure wish I could have a nice vacation if I was feeling sad" business that most of us…

Depression and mental issues have a huge amount of stigma here in the USA. If I told my employer I wanted time off because I was depressed, there is an almost zero chance that I would get any meaningful support other than being allowed to use my limited PTO that I have accrued. I do pay for both short and long term disability, but as far as I know, Long-term disability (LTD) insurers are generally reluctant to approv…

I will say that every time I have brought up depression in a professional context I have been surprised by how willing people are to find ways to make things work. It's not a guarantee OFC and you still might pick your allies, but you might be overestimating the stigma.
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