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The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

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Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#101

Post by blhack »

mcphage wrote: post #51
blhack wrote: post #40

I think that what you're seeing is HNers, and techies in general not really understanding that there is a world that exists well outside of their bubble of technology. Bitcoin did not create the concept of ransom. It didn't even create the concept of ransom as a business model for organized crime. See for instance our neighbor to the south: https://www.vox.com/2018/5/11/17276638/mexico-kidnappings-cr... This is such…

> Should we ban shipping? Shipping is pretty useful, though. What are the other major uses for Bitcoin?

I don't really know how to ask this question without it sounding insulting, but: do you agree that currency itself is useful?

And then the broader question is: do you agree that financial instruments are useful?

It seems odd to me that there are so many people on HN who don't seem to understand the importance of finance. You are literally posting on the website of a venture capital firm.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#102

Post by hermes19 »

CincinnatiMan wrote: post #42
saurik wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

""" While we're at it, maybe those same people can defend the Internet, right? Clearly, this experiment in anyone in the world being able to nigh unto anonymously communicate with anyone else was a mistake... at best, every packet should be tracked back to some regulated endpoint that can be tracked in the real world. The Internet, after all, makes the dark web--and its myriad crimes, including ransomware, drug traff…

I think the argument would be that the internet, while enabling bad things, is a net-positive with its good outweighing its bad. Whereas the value provided by cryptocurrencies is not as clear.

I live in a region where electronic cigarettes can't be purchased through the internet. Local shops can sell them, and do at a 100%-150% markup. fasttech.com will sell me products at msrp, but recently payment processors stopped allowing them to sell to me if my order contained electronic cigarette components (heaters, coils, resisters, batteries, etc).

I was very pleased to discover they accept BTC and ETH as payment options.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#103

Post by thehappypm »

px43 wrote: post #100
thehappypm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is one tool for sending money over the internet, but it's hardly the only one, and it's far from the best. Most transaction utilities don't have potential for your transfer to lose 30% overnight.

Have you invented a magical currency that always retains its value? If so you should probabally let the world know.

I use the wonderfully stable US dollar.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#104

Post by lancemurdock »

emodendroket wrote: post #94
lancemurdock wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some of the biggest plagues on society are rooted in central banking policies. If you have ever been upset at the amount of money bankers make, markets they've manipulated which resulted in tiny fines, or went bankrupt and needed bailouts which require printing money which devalues all the current dollars you own as well as not enforce any reason for them to avoid future bubbles then you might be more open to somethi…

Deflationary currency would be an absolute nightmare for everyone except those lucky enough to be holding on to a lot of it before it was too valuable.

Deflationary currency would be a nightmare because some cohort would become very wealthy? I am not sure those two thoughts are connected.

Deflation is not a bad thing for the end consumer. Our purchasing power should be going up over time as advancements/efficiencies in technology, shipping, healthcare create more for less.

Deflation is "bad" in our current system because we have so much debt that isn't backed by much collateral. Interest rates rise putting a hold on businesses that don't produce much and creates an endless domino effect

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#105

Post by fighterpilot »

thehappypm wrote: post #88
fighterpilot wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low value won't change its criminal utility. A criminal looking for a $50k ransomware payment doesn't care if the market cap is $50M or $50B. Outlawing it will make a difference though since it'll make it less likely that victims will pay, meaning the endeavor has a lower success rate.

This misses a big point though. If Corporation A needs to pay $1M in crypto to Hacker B, Corporation A needs to acquire $1M in crypto (whether that's 20 BTC or 20,000). If it's illegal for them to acquire the crypto they can't make the payment. The bottom falls out.

That's what I said in my second paragraph. The illegality itself is what will work. The market value is irrelevant

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#106

Post by quanticle »

tptacek wrote: post #97
quanticle wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more difficult than one imagines to ban Bitcoin's linkages to the existing institutional financial system. After all, it's not as if REvil or DarkSide are using Coinbase to trade their Bitcoin. If the United States shuts down all Bitcoin exchanges operating on its territory, but Russia does not, then does that have a meaningful impact on the usage of Bitcoin for cybercrime? It seems to me that all such a…

Yes, it does, because it makes it much more difficult for victims to confidently interact with the criminal financial system.

That is a good point, but we might also end up with yet another layer of criminal organization: "dark exchanges" that allow victims of cybercrime to get cryptocurrency without interacting with the legal financial system. While I would rather that ransoms not be paid at all, if a ransom has to be paid, I'd much rather the company get their cash in a legitimate manner, interacting with financial entities that cooperate with law enforcement, rather than via fences and money launderers.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#107

Post by emodendroket »

lancemurdock wrote: post #104
emodendroket wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deflationary currency would be an absolute nightmare for everyone except those lucky enough to be holding on to a lot of it before it was too valuable.

Deflationary currency would be a nightmare because some cohort would become very wealthy? I am not sure those two thoughts are connected. Deflation is not a bad thing for the end consumer. Our purchasing power should be going up over time as advancements/efficiencies in technology, shipping, healthcare create more for less. Deflation is "bad" in our current system because we have so much debt that isn't backed by muc…

That's not what I said, is it? It would be great if you happen to have a bunch of Bitcoins. For everyone else it would be a nightmare because it would encourage disinvestment. Why take a risk when you can literally just sit on your money? Loans would also become pretty much unfeasible both for business purposes and for consumers (hope you can buy a house with cash).

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#108

Post by tptacek »

quanticle wrote: post #106
tptacek wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it does, because it makes it much more difficult for victims to confidently interact with the criminal financial system.

That is a good point, but we might also end up with yet another layer of criminal organization: "dark exchanges" that allow victims of cybercrime to get cryptocurrency without interacting with the legal financial system. While I would rather that ransoms not be paid at all, if a ransom has to be paid, I'd much rather the company get their cash in a legitimate manner, interacting with financial entities that cooperate…

At some point, companies can just arrange for the transfer of suitcases full of cash. The point is that increasing the friction on these crimes reduces their incidence, and that's a point the author provides evidence for.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#109

Post by lancemurdock »

emodendroket wrote: post #107
lancemurdock wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deflationary currency would be a nightmare because some cohort would become very wealthy? I am not sure those two thoughts are connected. Deflation is not a bad thing for the end consumer. Our purchasing power should be going up over time as advancements/efficiencies in technology, shipping, healthcare create more for less. Deflation is "bad" in our current system because we have so much debt that isn't backed by muc…

That's not what I said, is it? It would be great if you happen to have a bunch of Bitcoins. For everyone else it would be a nightmare because it would encourage disinvestment. Why take a risk when you can literally just sit on your money? Loans would also become pretty much unfeasible both for business purposes and for consumers (hope you can buy a house with cash).

"Hodling" is certainly part of the culture but it wont be as more services get rolled out. Look at the volume on exchanges, people move coins around, stake them, or even loan them out for APY rates.

Loans would not become unfeasible, but they would be extremely reduced to people who can pay them back. That encourages healthy financial investment. It also encourages business to focus on profitability instead of raising the next round.

Whether its Bitcoin/Ethereum/Gold/Silver or something else, a thriving financial system must be backed by something finite or an extremely controlled and low inflation rate. Thats not an opinion, thats a fact. Cash or StableCoins could still be issued and backed by something like Bitcoin or has its been done in the past with Gold.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#110

Post by coolspot »

alecst wrote: post #4

Is it possible to ban cryptocurrency traffic in general? How would that even work?

Same way as currently botnet command center IPs are blackholed.

Scan the Internet for any BTC/Ethereum open ports and blackhole them.

Also, some ISPs disconnect users upon detection of BitTorrent traffic.

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