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Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

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Re: Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

#101

Post by cercatrova »

jpm_sd wrote: post #100
cercatrova wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? Isn't the common advice that you should have multiple offers in hand before giving notice? Or do you give notice without an offer?

I've been working for 20 years and I've had 6 different jobs. I have never once had multiple simultaneous offers for new jobs. In my experience it's been offer; acceptance; agree on start date; then give notice.

Interesting. That has not been my experience at all. For every job I'd get multiple simultaneous offers then use them for leverage against each other one, then accept the best one.

Re: Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

#102

Post by Chico75 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #14
throwaway158497 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, emoployees can leave company any time. And they leave companies on short notices! Cuts both ways!

Are there actually countries where employees can't quit if they want to?

In France you have to stay for some time if you're resigning: https://www.welcometofrance.com/en/fiche/resignation

For example, IT consultants usually need to stay for around 3 months following their resignation.

It's the other side of the coin of strong employment laws that make it very hard for people with permanent positions to be let go, unlike the US.

Re: Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

#103

Post by paxys »

mc32 wrote: post #94
Brian_K_White wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when they do that, do you not consider it wrong?

How is it wrong? Company A makes an offer for a job on June 1 with a start date of June 15 and a salary of 100. Company B makes an offer for a job on June 5 with a start date of June 20 and salary of 130. Should you say, I'm sorry company B., your offer is much better, but I already took the lesser offer? Yes, I'm sure _some_ people would turn down a 30% diff., but most people will not and I would not hold that again…

It's even worse because a lot of top companies lock you in with offers 8-10 months before the start date, and college kids don't know any better.

Re: Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

#104

Post by Chico75 »

pkaye wrote: post #58
tylerwhipple wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was working in France you legally had to give 3 months notice to quit. I think there are ways around this notice period in certain situations.

What happens if you just walk out? Any kind of penalty?

Financial penalties can apply: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https:/...

Re: Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

#105

Post by hirundo »

PeterBannon wrote: post #65
deadmutex wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was hired to write a compiler for deep learning (training) on Tesla's in-house hardware, under Pete Bannon. You were hired to report to Pete Bannon? So, that is some other person? And your (user+)name is also Peter Bannon?

This is my throwaway Hacker News account named after the relevant director at Tesla: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterbannon I'm sorry you found this so confusing.

It's not just confusing but unethical. The confusion serves to put words in another person's mouth. It is a kind of impersonation. Please retire this account.

Re: Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

#106

Post by tablespoon »

Aperocky wrote: post #61
paxys wrote: post #36

This is sadly a lot more common than people realize. It's drilled in your head that as an employee you should never ever renege on a job offer or accept a better one too soon because you are "burning bridges" and that is very bad, but it never works the same the other way around. Budgets change all the time. Departments go through reorgs. Projects get cancelled. "Hey but we have an open job offer" is never going to b…

> it never works the same It does. The opinion on an organization is the aggregate of the experiences of the people that works for it, that's why crayon is featured prominently in marine jokes. It just takes a lot longer and a lot of experiences such as these for the opinion to shift, but once they do, the effect is the same. Tesla and SpaceX have very poor reputation in terms of working for them, and that reputation…

> Tesla and SpaceX have very poor reputation in terms of working for them, and that reputation have an impact on its ability to find people....

> Granted, some people are not motivated by money or better treatment, and simply wanted to build something that goes to Mars, hats off to them. That doesn't mean Tesla lost nothing over poor (potential) work reputation.

Unfortunately, looking at the overall picture, I think they've been able to use the passion aspects of their jobs to balance out or even outweigh their other negative employment practices, so those negatives don't really harm them.

Re: Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

#107

Post by mr_woozy »

ffhhj wrote: post #74
jschwartzi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this promissory estoppel? Like they promised that you would start at a certain date, causing you to quit your current job. Then they withdrew the promise, causing you to be unemployed.

A clever tatic to remove key employees from competitors.

only the ones not smart enough to look up how Tesla job offers go.

Re: Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

#108

Post by tzs »

paxys wrote: post #36

This is sadly a lot more common than people realize. It's drilled in your head that as an employee you should never ever renege on a job offer or accept a better one too soon because you are "burning bridges" and that is very bad, but it never works the same the other way around. Budgets change all the time. Departments go through reorgs. Projects get cancelled. "Hey but we have an open job offer" is never going to b…

> Budgets change all the time. Departments go through reorgs. Projects get cancelled.

Here's how companies that aren't run by jackasses handle it.

My first job after college was at Hughes Aircraft, Ground Systems Group. They had some sort of upcoming project for the government that would involve several VAX 11/780s running Unix (and maybe some Unix workstations) that they were going to buy, and I was hired to be a Unix admin and system programmer.

Between the time I accepted and my scheduled start date the project was cancelled as was the purchase of the Unix machines. Since they had no other Unix machines, they had no need for a Unix admin and system programmer.

Not being jackasses, they found something else for me to do on an existing project. It wasn't really a good fit for my skills, and I left after a month. They were fine with that, but would have been fine with it if I'd chosen to stay and try to develop my skills in that project's subject.

Maybe for a small company rescinding an offer due to a reorg or budget change is a necessary evil. Maybe even for a big company that is circling the drain. Otherwise, find something else for them to do.

Re: Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

#109

Post by tablespoon »

jopsen wrote: post #12

The two times I started a new job it seems the position I was interviewed for, and the team I ended up joining was somewhat different... Because of shifting priorities, etc. such is life in a living organization. But neither employer rescinded their offer. Retracting a job offer is not normal. Stories like this will discourage people from joining Tesla. And in reality Tesla could easily find a position for an extra e…

> But neither employer rescinded their offer. Retracting a job offer is not normal.

Yeah, I've heard of canceling job offers right before they've been sent to the candidate, but canceling them after they've been sent is unusual. I think that may even open up the employer to some legal liability (promissory estoppel, IIRC).

Re: Tesla Rescinds Job Offer

#110

Post by eloff »

adamcstephens wrote: post #93
eloff wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, been there, done that. I turned down my other offers and then the one I accepted cancelled on me the night before my first day of work. I ran out of money and had to take a loan from a friend. I ended up working for them later anyway. No point holding a grudge.

It’s not about holding a grudge, it’s a loss of trust. If an employer did this to me, I wouldn’t trust them to not fuck me over in other ways as an employee.

I already don't trust my employer not to fuck me over if it benefits them. So not much changes.
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