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Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

dolphin-emu.org

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#101

Post by judge2020 »

caddybox wrote: post #70
threeseed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. I think they might just survive without your business. And pretty sure it demonstrates that their formula of security and privacy over openness is the right one for them.

> Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. > I think they might just survive without your business. The parent post makes some the argument that the restrictive nature of iOS makes it unappealing to certain users. You counter that with a discussion-ending argument about how much money Apple makes. Not everything that makes billions of dollars is immune to criticism. Especially since Apple markets the iPad…

> Especially since Apple markets the iPad as a "computer"

Except when it's not a computer https://youtu.be/pI-iJcC9JUc (/s)

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#102

Post by merdadicapra »

xvector wrote: post #85
caddybox wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. > I think they might just survive without your business. The parent post makes some the argument that the restrictive nature of iOS makes it unappealing to certain users. You counter that with a discussion-ending argument about how much money Apple makes. Not everything that makes billions of dollars is immune to criticism. Especially since Apple markets the iPad…

> You counter that with a discussion-ending argument about how much money Apple makes. The implication is that Apple's design decision favors far more users than it doesn't. In other words, the same design decisions that cost Apple one HNer nets them general consumers - so Apple can definitely survive without the HNer's business.

> The implication is that Apple's design decision favors far more users than it doesn't.

That's some serious spurious correlation.

https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

Globally in the tablet segment Apple has a 31% market share (https://cdnen.soyacincau.com/2021/05/210503-tablets.jpg), so the number say that «Apple's design decision upsets far more users than it doesn't»

Many companies could «definitely survive without the HNer's business», the question is wether the HNer's opinions hold more value technically speaking or not.

I mean, Saudi Aramco makes much more money than Apple, could «definitely survive without the HNer's business», but I guess nobody would say that their «design decision favors far more users than it doesn't».

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#103

Post by bri3d »

G3rn0ti wrote: post #18

The real challenge is running F-Zero GX. I’d love to see some benchmarks for this game — the hardest game to emulate.

By what metric? AFAIK the Factor 5 games, especially Rogue Squadron III, are considered the most challenging, both due to their obscure tricks (iirc Rogue Squadron uploads an outdated audio microcode to get a "loop counter" feature back which no other games use, for example) and most complete use of the MMU mechanisms (I believe they even use the ARAM as swap transparently to the game engine, using some goofy allocator trick) - which is why Rogue Squadron III was chosen for this benchmark.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#104

Post by kstenerud »

dmitriid wrote: post #72
kstenerud wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it this way: Apple played the part of trailblazer, demonstrating that it was possible to run circles around Intel with modern RISC designs. We'll be seeing many more entries into the marketplace over the next few years, and MUCH greater diversity and consumer choice as a result. Sure, Apple did it for selfish reasons and they'll keep their platforms locked up as much as they can get away with, but the end resul…

> e'll be seeing many more entries into the marketplace over the next few years No, not in the next few years. In 10 years? Maybe. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26917136

This isn't a question of capability (which is already there), but rather of mindset. Now that the other companies know that it's possible to sell a $1000 ARM computer that's not a phone or a toy, they'll be falling all over themselves to join in on the gold rush. Lots of absolute crap will ensue as they mindlessly bumble their way through shitty designs, and then in a few years we'll see the first decent non-apple ARM desktop and laptop computers. And by that time, Microsoft will have dusted off their ARM code, major Linux distros will be giving real love to their ARM packacing.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#105

Post by _ea1k »

mumblemumble wrote: post #69
fooqux wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers And many of us do . I would never buy a locked-down piece of hardware like that. But I don't think it matters either way what either side wants, because it's what Apple wants that matters. They want to keep their walled garden's walls air tight, and there are apparently enough people that are OK living in that garden that it works. I'm positive tha…

Google probably didn't do any real calculus, and I strongly doubt it was anything like a principled decision. They probably just realized that it simply wasn't an option. Android lacks the vertical integration that iOS has. It would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, for Google to get Android licensees to accept such a heavily walled garden. Remember that this decision was made over a decade ago, back…

IDK, AT&T used to lock out third party apps on their Android phones. It didn't go over well and was eventually reversed.

I think they stayed in that state for a few years, though.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#106

Post by jolux »

floatboth wrote: post #99

> [mapping memory WX] hasn't been forbidden on any of the prior platforms that Dolphin supports Well, rarely completely forbidden, but e.g. I think OpenBSD has been W^X by default for quite some time (though IIRC with a WX allowed flag per… FS mount?). Now on FreeBSD it's not default but it's there, and if you turn it on, you have to mark WX-mapping binaries by running `elfctl -e +wxneeded`. Firefox actually became W…

I didn't realize SpiderMonkey was W^X compliant. Does that mean Apple's arguments about third party browser security on iOS are less well-founded than I had believed? My impression was that performant JITs were incompatible with W^X.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#107

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66
fooqux wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers And many of us do . I would never buy a locked-down piece of hardware like that. But I don't think it matters either way what either side wants, because it's what Apple wants that matters. They want to keep their walled garden's walls air tight, and there are apparently enough people that are OK living in that garden that it works. I'm positive tha…

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

>openness at the expense of security

This is a false dilemma. You can have both.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#108

Post by handrous »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #100
flutas wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Guess what Facebook would do to get around Apple’s privacy restrictions right now. You mean the privacy features built in to the OS?

Some privacy features are in the OS, but others aren’t. For example, Facebook probably doesn’t like having users see the privacy label in the App Store. It’s kind of embarrassing. Also, if Facebook could sideload, they could use restricted APIs and entitlements that the App Store would not permit.

Also, not being permitted to fingerprint users for tracking. The OS prevents certain methods of doing that, but can't prevent all the methods that Apple's banned. The review process and threat of the banhammer are necessary to prevent those.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#109

Post by bombcar »

realusername wrote: post #98
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

What if you got a used phone or tablet though? Are you just supposed to throw it away to the trash and get another one because the manufacturer doesn't approve you using it? And what about devices which aren't supported anymore?

I think an interesting attack on this loophole would be a law that requires that the relevant signing keys/bootloader access be opened 1-3 years after official support for the hardware ends.

Sure this would complicate things a bit (Apple would have to have different keys for different hardware revisions), but it would allow devices to be "officially" jailbroken after support ends.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#110

Post by Vrondi »

jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Yes.
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