Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor • Hacker News Board

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#101

Post by chasebank » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #68

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an excellent comment. What makes me very sad is that during the past 14 months the divide between those who own assets and those who don't has reached gargantuan proportions. I mean, in my raging inferno of a housing market, over the past couple of years home prices have easily doubled. So a 400k house from 2018 now sells for 800k. Yes, if I want to move to another house in my area I'll pay similarly…

Taxes even that out a bit. The person with an 800k house pays twice as much in property taxes. In many states, the amount that the state can raise taxes on someone whose house may have "increased" in value is limited.

Not in California. Prop 13 keeps property taxes at the value when you purchased your home.

IMO this is a massive contributor to inflated property values, now leaking into other state economies.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#102

Post by throwaway6734 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #65

nanis wrote: post #36

Wealth is a stock measure, income is flow. You accumulate wealth out of what you can set aside out of the flow. Some of us immigrants do not come to this country with an existing stock of wealth either back home or here. We are also not in the favored group of immigrants. We have human capital which we are trying to convert to financial capital for the next generation. Then, when we sort of "make it" here, people who…

I think this is an excellent comment. What makes me very sad is that during the past 14 months the divide between those who own assets and those who don't has reached gargantuan proportions. I mean, in my raging inferno of a housing market, over the past couple of years home prices have easily doubled. So a 400k house from 2018 now sells for 800k. Yes, if I want to move to another house in my area I'll pay similarly…

The solution is to move to an area with cheaper housing.

Moving to opportunity is the American way

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#103

Post by serf » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

IggleSniggle wrote: post #83

phone8675309 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a coworker at my first programming job complaining how hard it was to make it on a $175,000 a year salary in the Midwest. It was nearly three times what I was making and I thought "I can manage with so much less, wtf is this person’s problem?"

If they were struggling to make it on $175000, maybe they had a $200000 a year in medical bills! This is America we’re talking about after all.

I get that it's a tongue-in-cheek comment, but most coding positions i've ran into in the United States offer pretty comprehensive health and dental plans.

If someone years ago making 175k a year coding doesn't have healthcare insurance then it's likely of their own doing either through contract renegotiation or taking a pretty damn bad benefits package for the sake of a fairly high salary for such a position.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#104

Post by gonzo41 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

mardifoufs wrote: post #87

gonzo41 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty is a choice. Its not unsolvable. In Australia we had economic support that was pretty generous during COVID. Poverty pretty much vanished. Then it got expensive, the support ended and it's back. Poverty is a choice.

But maybe it ended because Australia couldn't just keep paying forever, thus again proving that poverty isn't just solved. The entire reason why Australia was able to do it in the first place was because it was understood it would be a temporary measure caused by an emergency.

Yes, society has chosen not to deal with poverty like an emergency. It chose. And Australia can afford it. Money is just a construct! but seriously it is and feeding people is cheaper than building useless submarines for the navy and we're not stopping that.

And just on your point, the government has discretion over it's own spending, it didn't need to vote to give people money like in the states. The Australian government can turn on and off the tap when it likes it's not restricted as heavily as you'd think.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#105

Post by GuB-42 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

moralestapia wrote: post #76

GuB-42 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part is that your wealthy family member is right. It is well illustrated by a quote from Terry Pratchett > The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. > Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a se…

This is very naive and short-sighted, what percentage of your income go to boots? 1%? Your own example is talking about a ROI of 50USD in years, yeah sure ... that's wealth right there. People spend 90% of their wage on: rent, food and basic services. Can you be very smart and hack your way into halving your monthly rent? Can you be very smart and buy a really good potato that will last you for years? Can you be very…

Of course it is a joke, it is Terry Pratchett after all.

But there is a serious problem behind it.

For example, with food, if you have enough money you can afford to buy large quantities and take advantage of discounts.

For rent, it you have money, deposits won't be a problem, and landlord may be more willing to give you interesting offers. Poor people are at risk of not being able to pay the rent, and landlords have to account for it. You may even buy and not pay the rent.

For utilities, if you have money, you can buy more efficient heaters and appliances, better isolation, maybe even solar panels and stuff like that which may be profitable after a few years.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#106

Post by AdrianB1 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #56

FriedrichN wrote: post #3

A more distant but very wealthy family member once said that people wouldn't be so poor if they just saved up money. That perfectly illustrated the difficulty rich people have understanding poor people to me. I was really young, but that really stuck with me.

We had a babysitter recently charge us $21 for 3 hours. It blew my mind. I insisted that we paid her $40, which still seemed insane. Someone earning $7/hr makes $280/week. I can’t imagine trying to get by on that even with no dependents.

I know some people that do low paid work as an extra, not to live on it. $280/week is over 10 times my salary at my first full time job and I was supposed to live on it. It's all relative, without enough context it is meaningless.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#107

Post by bradleyjg » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #65

nanis wrote: post #36

Wealth is a stock measure, income is flow. You accumulate wealth out of what you can set aside out of the flow. Some of us immigrants do not come to this country with an existing stock of wealth either back home or here. We are also not in the favored group of immigrants. We have human capital which we are trying to convert to financial capital for the next generation. Then, when we sort of "make it" here, people who…

I think this is an excellent comment. What makes me very sad is that during the past 14 months the divide between those who own assets and those who don't has reached gargantuan proportions. I mean, in my raging inferno of a housing market, over the past couple of years home prices have easily doubled. So a 400k house from 2018 now sells for 800k. Yes, if I want to move to another house in my area I'll pay similarly…

People made vastly more money just sitting around in their houses in the past couple years than I made in my job as an "essential" worker over the past decade.

This is not an accident. It’s a result of deliberate policy choices. The incumbent homeowners voted themselves massive returns. And they felt self righteous while they were doing it to boot.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#108

Post by voidfunc » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

Oh man this resonates in a weird way... I don't know jack shit about being poor. I grew up extremely well-off in the late 80s and 90s. My college education was paid 100% by my parents without a loan. We had nice cars and belonged to country clubs. Even in my first job where I was only making 35K/yr my parents gave me quite a bit of help so it was easy.

I have a few friends that are poor... I feel for their issues, I always try and help out when asked, but I also know to keep my mouth shut about problems the poor face or how I think they should solve the problem because my solutions are usually so detached from the reality of their grinding life that it comes off as patronizing and unempathetic.

My dad gets it, he grew up as a poor kid in an Italian immigrant household. First kid to college and then he did really well after that in business. He understands it in ways I'll never know. He mostly keeps his opinions to himself on the matter but I've never heard him rattle off any easy solutions or tropes like "they just need to work harder" because he knows his mother and father busted their butts and never stopped being poor. It was only when he became an adult and started making money that he could help them live comfortably.

My mother (love her) she grew up middle class during the American Dream years of the 50's and 60's and has never known poverty either, but she has strong opinions on it... always of the variety of they are "lazy" or need to "work harder", or the solutions are impractical or grounded in a reality that hasn't existed since the early 70s. I think my Dad has given up at this point changing her mind as they're both well into their 70s, but yea I never want to be like my mother.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#109

Post by chasebank » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

GuB-42 wrote: post #45

FriedrichN wrote: post #3

A more distant but very wealthy family member once said that people wouldn't be so poor if they just saved up money. That perfectly illustrated the difficulty rich people have understanding poor people to me. I was really young, but that really stuck with me.

The worst part is that your wealthy family member is right. It is well illustrated by a quote from Terry Pratchett > The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. > Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a se…

I see this everyday at a local bodega. I watched a poor family essentially grocery shop at the corner store. Toilet paper, chips, soda, canned food, etc. Their bill was over $100. I could get 3x the items, at higher quality with a trip to Costco for the same amount of money.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#110

Post by dsr_ » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

zpeti wrote: post #75

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an excellent comment. What makes me very sad is that during the past 14 months the divide between those who own assets and those who don't has reached gargantuan proportions. I mean, in my raging inferno of a housing market, over the past couple of years home prices have easily doubled. So a 400k house from 2018 now sells for 800k. Yes, if I want to move to another house in my area I'll pay similarly…

I would love to see a parallel universe where in 2008 no one is bailed out and bankers are either on the hook for the risks they took or actually are sent to prison. Taking it further back, what if the tech bubble of the 90s is allowed to collapse, interests aren't set at almost 0, and a housing bubble isn't blown by exploiting minorities. And last year airlines, and other corporations who didn't account for black sw…

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