Live data from Hacker News

Chiropractors are bullshit

theoutline.com

101–110 of 144 posts

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#101
post #11

I come from a long lineage of chiropractors (although I’m not one). I’ve never been a big believer in the practice, and yes there are very rare cases where a chiropractic adjustment can lead to a stroke but again, it’s extremely rare. (Perhaps less rare if you’re going to the guy at the mall kiosk..) I’d like to see some scientific studies proving chiropractic adjustments are harmful. A lot of physical and mental hea…

> I’d like to see some scientific studies proving chiropractic adjustments are harmful. This is really not at all how science works. On the contrary, chiropractors should be able to prove that their methods work to a community of extremely skeptical scientists, using double-blind tests as is standard practice. At the end, it is likely mostly harmless, just like homeopathy. It may be even positive, in that receiving r…

I think it makes more sense when you rephrase it and drop the ask for proof to something like 'I would be interested in some scientific studies on the safety...' (at least I would, having considered visiting a chiropractor recently for back pain).

Medlife Crisis has a good video talking about the placebo effect and the promotion of pseudoscientific treatments that's really worth a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQw2B0vCPYo

tl;dr In the video, he captures my concerns perfectly about the whole thing, "by mainstreaming and legitimising practices outside proven science it increases acceptance of things that don't work, and regular people can be harmed through neglecting effective therapies"

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#102
I had an interesting run-in with a chiropractor. Toward the end of winter 2017 there was a freak snow storm in the north east. 2 feet of heavy snow fell in 24 hours. I had an undiagnosed shoulder injury I was compensating for from hard falls downhill biking and 20 years of drumming. I didn't realize at the time as I ran the snow blower pushing and lifting it, I was doing critical damage to my spine. C5, C6 & C7 were bulging and getting herniated, impeding on nerves that control my left back arm and hand.

Over the next two weeks my left back shoulder forearm and hand would vary in sensation from complete numbness to random spasms to extreme pain like fire or bursting open. I lost muscle and my back shoulder and arm began to atrophy.

In NYC it's tough to get to see a doctor without an appointment unless you're loaded. I'm not but I was willing to bleed my life savings to get some relief. I went to lots of doctors, paying cash, just to get someone to help. They barely looked at me and never touched me. An x-ray showed no broken bones so they prescribed muscle relaxers. Nothing they did would address the underlying issue or actually do anything beyond postponing even worse bigger issues to deal with later.

I started going to acupuncture. $200 dollars a pop. Laying on the table was excruciating. I couldn't feel the needles at all. The acupuncturist eventually would push needles all the way through various muscles with no effect. Then we tried "cupping", it looked awesome/gruesome. Since the needle pokes weren't working she recommended chiro.

This is were things get interesting. I'm on the chiro table, he walked in and takes one look at me "Whoa, what did you do?!" He could see my shoulder was not aligned. I felt so relieved that someone finally could see my injury and immediately. I thought I was in good hands. He started to manipulate me. "Did you have a previous injury? Your shoulder has partial subluxation. Your c5,c6,c7 are out of alignment. That's strange." Then he said he was going to fix my shoulder. "You'll feel a lot of pressure. That's weird it popped out again. You may should go to the ER." I now I realize I went in to shock. Everything after was a blur. I remember him saying things but I don't know what. I ended up in NYU ER. My entire arm felt like was opened and dissected and lit on fire. It was a busy day and the waiting room had a triage tent setup. I wasn't dying and blood was flowing to my arm so I sat there for three hours. They finally gave me a valium. The pain stopped. As I left, the ER staff begged me to stay. I got in a taxi and went home. The valium made me feel great, like a cloud; soft and fluffy. (BTW that ER visit "not a bill" was for $5,500... I never saw specialist or got any imaging. Just a valium.) The day after I felt like I lost a fight and got my left side kicked in. Weeks later I saw a neurologist, I had an MRI, It turns out my c567 were in fact bulging. But the chiro should not have manipulated me without imaging.

This is my back in May of that year. https://imgur.com/a/LA1emY8

I worked with PT and regained 100% use and strength even better than pre-injury, however as of today my thumb, index and middle finger are numb, I presume due to the extreme manipulation in the chiropractors office.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#103
post #40

FWIW, after spending a year seeing some doctors and getting not even a friggen correct diagnosis for my in-the-end-not-actually-a-"back"-issue, I saw an osteopath (of all things, and he did, in fact, come off like a quack) who suggested I had what I had originally self-diagnosed myself with before seeing the doctors who convinced me otherwise --a sacroiliac joint dysfunction--and then (after wasting some thankfully-s…

Let me start by saying that I agree that doctors do suck. They are people and that should be enough to understand them. But all self regulating industries with a financial incentive to lie suck. I realize this topic treads deeply into quasi-religious territory so forgive me in advance, but couldn't this just be the placebo effect? Mixed with the healing effect of someone caring about you? Maybe your physio actually g…

[deleted]

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#104
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’d like to see some scientific studies proving chiropractic adjustments are harmful. This is really not at all how science works. On the contrary, chiropractors should be able to prove that their methods work to a community of extremely skeptical scientists, using double-blind tests as is standard practice. At the end, it is likely mostly harmless, just like homeopathy. It may be even positive, in that receiving r…

> It may be even positive, in that receiving regular soothing attention from a bullshitter may have a good effect on your mental health This is why I would be more interested in seeing studies showing harm than studies showing efficacy. If it’s harmless and helps people in psychosomatic/indirect ways, I’m all for it. Especially when the alternative is going to an orthopedic doc and getting pain meds, over-eagerly pre…

> I’m all for it.

Not me. I abhor pretty lies, even when the knowledge of the truth proves to be harmful.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#105
post #40

FWIW, after spending a year seeing some doctors and getting not even a friggen correct diagnosis for my in-the-end-not-actually-a-"back"-issue, I saw an osteopath (of all things, and he did, in fact, come off like a quack) who suggested I had what I had originally self-diagnosed myself with before seeing the doctors who convinced me otherwise --a sacroiliac joint dysfunction--and then (after wasting some thankfully-s…

There are definitely bad doctors out there. However, this is, at best, personal anecdote about a single case and hardly evidence of systemic failure of modern medicine nor evidence that chiropractic is effective.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#106

I've lived both sides of this. I once went to a chiropractor for back issues and he made me seriously worse and it took months to recover because what he thought just needed to be put in was actually a herniated disc. Fast forward more than a decade and I have an amazing chiropractor. Every time I go there, I walk away feeling better, walking straighter, and in less pain. My daughter also goes there and the chiroprac…

Every time you go? That doesn't sound effective.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#107
post #43
post #23

This article is full of weak proof and elitism. If one is to go back to the 1900s to critize how the practice is formed one must remember the state of medicine. He references this but only to cast a negative light chiropractors by linking them to a time when medicine practices lack the scientific base we have now. This statement? "Who the hell peddles (real) medicine out of a kiosk" It is so elitist it out of touch.…

A friend of mine went to one of the best chiropractic schools. She said 30% of her instructional time was business classes. That told me a lot about the field.

How is 'best' quantified here? =)

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#108
post #11

I come from a long lineage of chiropractors (although I’m not one). I’ve never been a big believer in the practice, and yes there are very rare cases where a chiropractic adjustment can lead to a stroke but again, it’s extremely rare. (Perhaps less rare if you’re going to the guy at the mall kiosk..) I’d like to see some scientific studies proving chiropractic adjustments are harmful. A lot of physical and mental hea…

As long as the evidence shows chiropractic results in more strokes and also isn't more effective than doing nothing, then that's all the evidence you need.

I have a ~30 year old friend who had a stroke shortly after seeing a chiro; it was not officially recorded as due to the adjustment, but I suspect it was. How many more strokes are not properly attributed?

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#109

NFL/NBA uses chiropractors; that's enough testimonial for me.

NFL doesn't have a very good track record on the medical front. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/league-of-denial/ If chiro provides cheap short term care at the expense of the player, that sure does sound like a great deal for the business that is the NFL/NBA.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#110

I play a lot of hockey and in my younger more competitive years I took a very hard hit to my shoulder that severely dislocated my AC joint. After seeing a couple doctors, they told me I had many months of recovery ahead, probably surgery to fix it. It made no sense to me, no one would touch this huge bump on my shoulder unless they went to cut me open, which would be significant healing time. I went to a local myopra…

If you see them weekly, did they really fix anything? If anything, it sounds like they hooked you in for repeat business. When I see a doctor to fix an ailment, it's one and done.
Post reply on HN