Worthless paper, administrative costs is only a piece of the many issues with US "Healthcare". Medicare For All is the better and cheaper way forward. No one ever talks about what is the value all these Health Insurance companies bring? The whole point of their existence when they were created was to control costs. Obviously they have failed miserably. Medicare For All handles lowering or eliminating student loans fo…
Free goods have infinite demand. Medicare for All will simply degrade outcomes a lower common denominator. Interestingly, will the government allow private medical practices to exist in a Medicare for All regime? If so, it seems we would simply end up where we are now.
Researchers chart path to drastically lower administrative costs of health care
101–110 of 221 posts
Re: Researchers chart path to drastically lower administrative costs of health care
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would like you to start from the beginning of the person's medical training and not include the gatekeeping bit of having to get a bachelors in a random subject unrelated to medicine. Why? An apples-to-apples comparison would be to see how long it takes to become a general physician after completing secondary school. In the UK or India it's something like 5.5-6 years.[1] In the US it's 3-4 years of "pre-med", the…
> Why? An apples-to-apples comparison would be to see how long it takes to become a general physician after completing secondary school. Because if the requirement in the US is indeed "bachelor's degree required, any will do", then it exists solely for gate-keeping and says nothing about the standards of education. Edit: looking at wiki, the requirements are actually a bit more reasonable, but it does seem strange th…
I think really it's just the system was built this way and nobody's going to change it now.
Re: Researchers chart path to drastically lower administrative costs of health care
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know how residencies could not be profitable for hospitals. Hospitals receive something like $120k/yr per resident, then work residents 80+ hours/week at $50k/yr pay, amounting to right around minimum wage (for my city). Residents do a tremendous amount of work in supporting the hospital, so much so that a single resident getting deathly ill and needing to stay home (e.g a surgery resident getting covid, whic…
The residency slots are so limited right now because the AMA lobbied hard against expanding them in the 1990s (fearing a "glut" of doctors). Edit: Every time this comes up I go down a rabbit hole of looking for an article from the mid-to-late 90s where a medical lobbyist spoke about how doctors would be forced to leave the profession and do "mundane" jobs like driving cabs if the residency slots weren't capped. It di…
https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-fun...
Re: Researchers chart path to drastically lower administrative costs of health care
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Citation definitely needed here And just to be sure, I would like you to start from the beginning of the person's medical training and not include the gatekeeping bit of having to get a bachelors in a random subject unrelated to medicine. I note this Wikipedia article that suggests 4 years messed school plus 1 year internship could get me a license in the US. That sounds like Western Europe to me. Or India... https:/…
> I would like you to start from the beginning of the person's medical training and not include the gatekeeping bit of having to get a bachelors in a random subject unrelated to medicine. Why? An apples-to-apples comparison would be to see how long it takes to become a general physician after completing secondary school. In the UK or India it's something like 5.5-6 years.[1] In the US it's 3-4 years of "pre-med", the…
Premed is gatekeeping, and not all countries enforce that form of gatekeeping.
Re: Researchers chart path to drastically lower administrative costs of health care
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For example, the US has extremely high standards restricting who can practice medicine compared to the rest of world, limiting the supply of doctors... Really? Can you give some examples? There are a lot of immigrant physicians in the USA. An anecdotal counter example: my mother is a physician with medical licenses from Australia, UK and the USA (obviously two have lapsed) and though she is quite critical of countr…
all those immigrant physicians went thru the same programs as the non-immigrants. In fact, I hear this is continuously a problem for well qualified , practicing, and established physicians to migrate to the US. They are fed up with their own home countries lack of security, opportunities for their children, freedom etc, but they cannot imagine going back to medical school to be accredited to practice in the US. This…
I'm not going to specify to avoid slamming particular countries, but I would definitely refuse to be treated by doctors from several major countries that crank out tons of doctors, many of whom worm their way into US practice. (This isn't based on race, etc, at all just competency, and I have a much larger exposure to this than most people. These people kill way too many patients with their incompetence, but (especially lately) they cannot be criticized for fear of being branded racist. My body, my choice.)
Re: Researchers chart path to drastically lower administrative costs of health care
#106What a joke. The only thing that would lower the costs would be to increase the competition, but the government has allowed merger after merger after merger (in health insurance, and in providers, just like everything else lately), taking away more and more pressure to compete. Why is every other ad on TV for one of the car insurance companies? Competition, which drives down price. The way to fix US health care is to…
For historical reference, employer-paid insurance only became prevalent in the US during/after World War II as a way to compete for labor after the government implemented wage controls. When the wage controls were lifted, people had become used to the benefit of employer-paid health care and it stuck.
My sense is the US will never move to the model you describe with young men creating a buying group for very specific policies. Society is simply not going to accept extreme differences in premiums for young, healthy people vs much older, less healthy people.
Re: Researchers chart path to drastically lower administrative costs of health care
#107I agree with the three issues they identify driving up costs. But I fear “Medicare for All” won't fix all the issues, which go much deeper. For example, the US has extremely high standards restricting who can practice medicine compared to the rest of world, limiting the supply of doctors and artificially driving up their demand. There is a need for standards, but perhaps the AMA has too much political influence. Like…
Demand is also "artificially" driven up by the American diet and lifestyle. If the preventables (e.g., Type 2 Diabetes) were prevented, otherwise mitigated (less sugar!) then the resources / system could focus on real disease. The issue with the USA is it wants its cake, it wants to eat it, and expects to pay less for consistently making unhealthy choices.
Re: Researchers chart path to drastically lower administrative costs of health care
#108So how do they plan on getting private capitalist enterprise to start implementing reforms that would lower their profits? Because by definition administrative cost to the consumer is profit for the company.
What was not discussed in the paper was the effect the administrative complexities have on creating a moat are health care plans. The greater the complexity, the less healthcare providers will want to associate with multiple healthcare organizations/insurance companies.
Re: Researchers chart path to drastically lower administrative costs of health care
#109Insurance companies are basically just bill paying services, as almost all employer sponsored healthcare is self-insured by the employer as the risk pool is large enough to take care of the true "insurance" nature of the mutual pooling of risks.
So how do you think insurance companies will react to making it "easier to pay the bill through standardization?"
Chance of movement = zero.
Re: Researchers chart path to drastically lower administrative costs of health care
#110The FDA has no cost constraints and so maximizes safety instead of QALYs.
Medical equipment and drug manufacturers maximize profit and so fill the highest margin niches first instead of maximizing QALYs.
Radiology and lab services are lucrative and separate themselves from clinical providers to maximize profits instead of QALYs.
Individual physicians and especially surgeons can maximize profits by having their own practices vs. hospital or clinic environments where coordinated care maximizes QALYs.
Hospitals and clinics and especially ERs, cancer treatment, and skilled nursing facilities try to make ends meet with inpatient population and try to hold on to outpatient surgery, radiology, and lab services to make ends meet while providing whatever level of coordinated care they can, but still optimizing for profit over QALYs.
Insurance companies maximize profits by building actuarial plans that stratify patient populations by plan cost, skewing the burden of healthcare costs to the unemployed, underemployed, and low wage earners. A patient becoming uninsured is an economic win for insurance companies and employers. QALYs are proxied by cost/patient/year for anyone managing to stay insured which ignores deductibles, co-insurance and other out of pocket pay.
Medicare and medicaid programs are left to pick up the pieces by trying to piece together effective care with compensation restricted by arbitrary budgets and arbitrary service providers (many specialists, independent physicians, and facilities flatly refuse medicare/medicaid patients).
Actual patients have no clue how any of this works and end up with a pile of bills they try to pay off or if they know the trick they negotiate with the healthcare provider to settle for something slightly above the ~2% face value of debts written off to debt collectors who will hound sick people and their families incessantly.
Maximizing QALYs is hard enough in a centralized single-payer or universal healthcare system. Almost nothing in the U.S. healthcare system is aligned with that goal.