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Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#101

Post by lewisflude »

Nursie wrote: post #80
lewisflude wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you buy a mined diamond, you are paying for the story, of it being a finite thing, formed in the earth over a very long period of time. Lab grown diamonds don't have that story. Separately, the work that goes into cutting/finishing diamonds is incredible and there is a huge amount of variety between individual diamonds. They are very fascinating things.

That sounds like industry apologetics, to me. I don't know that the population in general are that keen on geology.

I don't mean to sound like I'm apologising for the industry. I agree with you, the general population don't care about the geology of diamonds. But there's definitely this feeling that lab grown diamonds are seen as this "other" thing that "isn't real" and I think that largely stems from this mythical idea of diamonds being rare things that are found in the earth.

I think it's quite common knowledge that diamonds were traditionally mined before we were able to make them in a lab, and because of this it's seen as the default to which any other methods of making a diamond are compared.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#102

Post by yason »

fogihujy wrote: post #30
cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

The Missus refuse to wear one. We both have (relatively) massive silver wedding bands.

Same here. We both did want a ring of some sort. I wouldn't care much about the material as long as it takes all the beating from elements that my fingers are subjected to, and Mrs would find diamonds or rocks abhorring and wouldn't even go for a gold band. So we bought modest silver bands that happen to be replicas of some ancient bands found a few hundred years ago locally. Mine has been sitting around my finger for fifteen years now except during a brief enlargening operation.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#103

Post by lotsofpulp »

lewisflude wrote: post #97
lotsofpulp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When you buy a mined diamond, you are paying for the story, of it being a finite thing, formed in the earth over a very long period of time. Lab grown diamonds don't have that story. I do not know who the “you” is here, but I would bet most people that want to consume diamonds (especially mined) as an end user for display purposes want to do so to signal their (potential) purchasing power, especially amongst their n…

The "you" here is someone buying a mined diamond. I would imagine you're right on status being one of the top reasons someone buys a diamond in the first place. There's other reasons (aesthetics, tradition), but I think the earth diamonds status as a rare expensive thing and it's artificial scarcity is what keeps them so desireable.

Yes, so my point is it does not have much to do with the story of the diamond.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#104

Post by qw »

joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

It's mostly about the emotional attachment. If you find two identical pens, and one of them was used by a famous writer, you would expect a price difference.

There is no difference in the quality of those pens. They both work the same, and using the writer's pen will not make you a better writer by itself.

I personally would not buy a natural diamond because of the ethical issues, but I do understand the students who feel there is a difference.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#105

Post by eru »

cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

Get a ring that doesn't have a diamond in it?

Or, buy a ring with a cubic zirconia in it, and don't tell anyone. They are almost indistinguishable from diamonds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_zirconia

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#106

Post by ivanhoe »

simonh wrote: post #71
Nursie wrote: post #35

Good for them. It's literally the same material, and we can now use scientific and engineering advances to remove the need for people to toil and die underground to get them. Hopefully the process is more environmentally friendly too. They are real diamonds. I find it hi-goddamned-larious that the moment these became viable, the industry switched from "Diamond purity is the be-all and end-all and you must have the cl…

If the best option available to people was diamond mining, by taking that away from them we’re by definition pushing them into an even worse option. That’s a big problem I have with a lot of the do-good commentary on developing world labour. Taking away options from people, even bad ones from our point of view, isn’t necessarily doing them any favours. None of these peoples options are going to look good to us. Actua…

So far these diamonds were both the primary cause of conflicts, as well as the main way of financing and prolonging them. Wars are expensive, so if you take money out of the game many militias/ fractions/ criminals will simply loose interest in those territories, and that should reduce the corruption and make things more stable for people there. In theory, that's way more important for progress than outside help, although it will also be needed.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#107

Post by me_me_me »

joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

Or that some people are small minded without insight of how their decision shape the world around them.

Be it diamonds, sports cars, etc doesnt matter.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#108

Post by eru »

djdjdjdjdj wrote: post #26
rm445 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of other types of pretty rock available. I think also if you decide to bow to those constraints, grit your teeth and buy a diamond, you can get ones certified to as less likely to have murder and slavery involved in their extraction. Albeit you'd still be supporting that ridiculous market indirectly. Smashing the stigma against lab diamonds seems like a great idea.

As anyone ever would be able to distinguish a real diamond from anything else. Like srsly how often even does someone look longer than a few seconds on your ring? I would bet people can't really determine a difference between glass and a diamond

Cubic zirconia is the go-to material for fake diamonds.

It's so close, even the jeweler has to break out some equipment.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_zirconia#Cubic_zirconia_...

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#109

Post by hiharryhere »

neilwilson wrote: post #50
cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

Always remember the whole diamond ring thing was a marketing putsh by DeBeers in the first place. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/ho... So arguably buying a diamond ring has always been a symbol of wage oppression and terrible mining conditions in Africa, and any right thinking person should boycott it. Fortunately my SO isn't that struck by sparkly rocks. She prefers antique jewellery with…

Likewise. There are some beautiful rings in antique stores that are unlike anything really being made today. Different craft.

It's also nice to think that the ring has had a life of its own already and you get to be another chapter in it.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#110

Post by Nursie »

lewisflude wrote: post #101
Nursie wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like industry apologetics, to me. I don't know that the population in general are that keen on geology.

I don't mean to sound like I'm apologising for the industry. I agree with you, the general population don't care about the geology of diamonds. But there's definitely this feeling that lab grown diamonds are seen as this "other" thing that "isn't real" and I think that largely stems from this mythical idea of diamonds being rare things that are found in the earth. I think it's quite common knowledge that diamonds wer…

I agree that the general population sees the ones dug out of the ground as "real" right now. I think the story being paid for is the DeBeers story though, of diamonds and marriage being inseperable, I don't think many people consider much where they came from, or consider the "rare thing dug up out of the ground" part of it particularly important in itself.

I guess I'm splitting hairs, yes there is definitely a cultural hangup about mined diamonds being "real" and made diamonds being imitations, fake, whatever. I just don't think many people care that much about the actual backstory, they just want a 'real' one. As such I think the synthetic diamond industry has a bit of an uphill struggle on its hands, but not an unwinnable one if they can convince people that theirs are 'real' too.

And to my (very literalist in many respects) mind, they are.

(edit - I will add that I have gone out of my way to source lab-created stones and silver settings to make jewellery for my partner in the past, so far mostly using star-sapphires, and she seems to have loved them. I find the idea of lab-recreated gems pretty fascinating, and I think that enthusiasm helped.)

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