Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#101

Post by PurpleFoxy » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

m-p-3 wrote: post #98

radicality wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has to be three days _and_ the airtag has to be in motion

I guess an ill-intentioned stalker could cripple or neuter the speaker to avoid it doing any sounds.

People have posted the steps to do it. It’s not very hard. But if you are willing to strip the airtag to bits, it would be easier to plant a cheap android with a sim in someones car.

The point is that stalking has always been possible, it’s only important that apple doesn’t make it way too easy. Also when you find an airtag you can bring it to the police and they can get apple to give the owners details. Removing the speaker shows proof of intent.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#102

Post by PurpleFoxy » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #60

vineyardmike wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know where you are, but in the US, if I gave the police a literal GPS coordinate of a stolen good, I still wouldnt expect them to actually go there and find it unless it’s of exceptionally high value (car, etc).

Part of the problem is the GPS resolution, which isn't accurate enough to know exactly which individual on a street has your stuff, or even which house it might be inside. A long while back, on a early Saturday morning, I was awoken by my doorbell and accosted by an angry father of a crying daughter who had had their iPhone stolen by someone at a bar the previous night. Well, "Find My iPhone" showed the dot location…

What police should do is keep a record of reports and their location and if too much shows up on one address, they investigate.

I have also seen reports of actual police knocking on people’s doors looking for things that show as on their house but we’re inaccurate.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#103

Post by meatmanek » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

takeda wrote: post #62

gnicholas wrote: post #58

> If you are an iPhone user, for instance, and someone has placed an AirTag on your person, your phone will eventually alert you that an AirTag that isn’t yours has been found “moving with you.” Apple didn’t clarify how quickly or often this alert will arrive, but it did share that it will occur when you arrive at your home (the address stored in your Apple “Me” card) or at certain other locations that your phone has…

I also find it ironic, that from the quote you posted it also sounds like: "no one can stalk you but us".

s/us/your phone, that we control the software for/

I believe this learning is done on-device, not relayed to the cloud.

Depending on whether you take Apple's statements at face value about how much they care about your privacy, that's either a big difference or a meaningless difference.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#104

Post by PurpleFoxy » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #21

w0mbat wrote: post #18

All these stalking counter-measures make it useless if your device is stolen rather than mislaid. If my bag is stolen I want it to contain a hard to find device, not one that gives away its position (by warning the thief). I also want an easy mechanism to give the police temporary access to track it, til they catch the thief and get my stuff back.

It's a tradeoff of course, but I think they struck a pretty good medium. I like how much they thought about this issue.

Agreed. Previously I could not find lost or stolen items. Now I can find lost items. That’s a pure improvement in my eyes.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#105

Post by PurpleFoxy » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:56 AM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #42

Arainach wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what law enforcement's response is going to be with the airtags? "Sorry, we have too many other cases" > Will having an Airtag's location be enough for a warrent? Probably not (see answer #1) > Will people become vigilantes and try to get their stuff back without law enforcement? Some of them, surely. Most of them, no. We already see this with things like bicycles that people are able to track down on Crai…

Startup of private airtag "recovery" services could be a thing.

Just wait till your bike is on the move, then get a group to recover it.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#106

Post by simondotau » Sat, May 01, 2021, 3:01 AM UTC

diebeforei485 wrote: post #73

judge2020 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Tile already does this mesh network of crowdsourcing. The issue is that Apple pushes privacy so much that it's bound to be a bigger story when they mess up compared to others, as stated in the OP.

If someone slips an AirTag in your car to stalk you, your own phone would enable your stalker because by default it would automatically update the location of the AirTag, even if you are not an AirTag user. It is a bit different if your stalker used Tile to track you. You'd have to download that app and opt in.

> your own phone would enable your stalker

No it wouldn't. If your phone can track an AirTag being used to stalk you, it can also alert you to this stalking.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#107

Post by simondotau » Sat, May 01, 2021, 3:03 AM UTC

microtherion wrote: post #69

djrogers wrote: post #35

There are a lot of comments here about how useless these protections are, because A or B already exist, or C works better for stalking. I think most of those comments are missing the real point here. If an Apple product were ever used to stalk - or God forbid, harm - an individual, it would be a big national story. If a Tile or a Samsung tag (or an amazon gps tracker made for stalking) were used in the same way, it w…

On the other hand, I can virtually guarantee that even if a Tile or Samsung tag is used that way, occasionally the headlines will mention Apple in a negative light anyway. It just comes with the mindshare, I guess.

Occasionally? More like unfailingly. I wonder if any journalist has ever written a story about worker condition in Foxconn factories without also mentioning Apple. It's like nobody in media cares about Chinese workers unless they're making Apple products. I suppose Foxconn workers who assemble Xboxes and PlayStations don't matter as much.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#108

Post by PurpleFoxy » Sat, May 01, 2021, 3:03 AM UTC

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #88

avalys wrote: post #86

“Instead, an AirTag that has not paired locally with its iPhone in three days will emit a sound.” Ugh, so if I’m gone for longer than a weekend all my stuff at home is going to start beeping? I’m sure my roommate will love that.

Is this really how it works? This seems like it would be a huge problem.

It isn’t. The tags have to be moving around and away from their owner. And if they really do go off and annoy someone. It’s trivial to twist the backs off and the coin cell battery pops out.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#109

Post by ohazi » Sat, May 01, 2021, 3:05 AM UTC

jakear wrote: post #97

This is such an amazingly terrible invention I have no clue where to begin. How many people will be sexually assaulted by predators planting these devices in the bags of unsuspecting folks at bars and tracking their every location? How many domestic abuse survivors will be terrorized by their abusers planting the tag on some possession then having access to their every location? Hell, how many folks will be burglariz…

> and I have no clue why they haven’t been implanted. Off the top of my head: a notification any time a tag has been away from it’s owners device for more than X time and has been around your device for at least Y time since, saying “it looks like XXX’s airtag has been lost and is with you, click here to message them”

Did you read past the headline? Apple is doing exactly this.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#110

Post by PurpleFoxy » Sat, May 01, 2021, 3:06 AM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #70

ibudiallo wrote: post #30

Ok, so I made these things called OttoTags in 2017. Think of them as AirTags with QR code instead (I'm a solo dev) From what I understand, when you find an airtag, you connect it to your device and it gives you the owners contact info. Anyone can get your phone number. When you find an ottotag, you scan it and you contact the owner through ottomon. From here the GPS location is captured and communicated. All interact…

> Anyone can get your phone number. If you put it in lost mode. Otherwise, it doesn't reveal the owner's phone number. It's assumed that clicking lost mode and putting a phone number means you expect to be called about that lost item.

I have tested them. If you nfc scan one not in lost mode, it opens a page explaining what airtags are and shows you it’s serial number. If you put it in lost mode, scanning shows the same page but with a phone number and a lost message.

Being in lost mode will also give the owner a notification when it is found.

The airtags are also account locked the whole time and must be manually removed by the owner before someone else can use them.