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Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

drewdevault.com

101–110 of 260 posts

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We factor in the degree of aligned incentives they have to their argument. Oil companies can say 100% factual things about climate change too. You'd still put their arguments under more scrutiny than a non-profit panel of scientists.

In that same vein, I assume that anyone who comes out against crypto has little or no stake in it. And I’m usually correct.

That’s a revelation as mind blowing as noticing people against drugs tend not to consume them. Only crypto folks seem to think skin in the game is a prerequisite for criticism and objective discussion.

Do you need to own other humans to form an opinion on slavery? Do you need to eat meat to form an opinion on being a vegetarian? Do you need to be in Congress to opine on its dealings? Why is cryptocurrency any different?

I’m responding to your very clear subtext, by the way.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#102
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"one of the biggest mistakes humans ever made"? come on.

I’m not sure I’d go that far but there might be more to it than you think: they’re directly one of the most common causes of death and lowered quality of life, and indirectly contribute to multiple others (carcinogens, respiratory diseases, everything related to lack of exercise and unhealthy eating, etc. both directly from usage and indirectly from suburbanization), a significant source of financial pressure for man…

"they’re directly one of the most common causes of ... lowered quality of life" - what is the basis of this statement? It seems like a manifest absurdity.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#103

Keep in mind that this is not an objective take, fraud is destroying his business. He’s conflating all crypto with PoW based systems. A more accurate title would be "Bitcoin is Making My Life Complicated”.

"Help we need to do something about Malaria, it's killing all of my family members." "This is not an objective take, his family is being affected. Malaria is not a problem."

Are you playing logical fallacy bingo?

You managed to turn OPs argument into a strawman, while also making an appeal to emotion and poisoning the well.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#104
post #70

I think there is a place for crypto, and I say that begrudgingly, ‘cuz ego, since I’ve been calling it all Tulips since a Bitcoin was $8. The biggest reason why Bitcoin works, and other established coins work, is because of demand from the developing world. If you don’t have reliable banks or governments then Cryptos are at least as good or better than your local banks because even if it collapses you can still acces…

From my reading it looks like the "developing world" use case is pure propaganda. E.g. someone investigated the "bitcoin in venezuela!" claim. Actually going there and tracking down use. Turns out it was a bitcoin investor who went to venezuela to do a transaction for the sole purpose of screaming "bitcoin in venezuela" to pump up the price.

> From my reading it looks like the "developing world" use case is pure propaganda.

From my perspective, it is not propaganda but it is my opinion. I didn’t come to the conclusion through any scientific rigor, but rather through observation. I have seen a spike in crypto discussion over the past year or two by, my obviously small sample, of thought leaders and entrepreneurs in primarily in Africa. The talk isn’t ever of get rich quick schemes, but instead focuses on generating long-term family wealth. It’s pretty inspiring to be honest. Investing in general moves your focus (or should) away from the now and to the future. For a lot of folks, myself included, a “future” never seemed possible. Maybe it’s silly but I started taking better care of myself once I started investing recently. I’m lucky, I live in the USA, I make decent money and have easy access via apps like Robinhood. What if I only had access to brokers who aren’t regulated or require deposits well exceeding anything I’ve ever saved? Truly, it pains me to say, but crypto markets are maturing and while they may not be stable compared to traditional 1st word financial markets they’re a lot better than many other alternatives.

Lastly please don’t see this as a recommendation to buy crypto. I wouldn’t unless you just wanna show off your diamond hands. Fwiw, I have to date ever owned exactly zero Bitcoin and only have a few lite coins mined years back (all of which have still not paid back the costs, but are close... Amazon or Tesla would’ve returned better in my case). I might not find it useful myself but it’s pretty hard to deny a lot of other people do find it useful.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#105
post #49

This is really a complaint against Proof of Work based consensus protocols. "Cryptocurrency" is also kind of a dumb term. Everyone seems to still think this is about creating new currencies. Really we are talking about tokens that represent some component of a system . Yes that is general because the base for experimentation with tokens is absurdly vast. God we need to move beyond thinking about Bitcoin! Really this…

> This is really a complaint against Proof of Work based consensus protocols. I wouldn't say so. The multi-level marketing ponzi scheme things would still be present. > "Cryptocurrency" is also kind of a dumb term. Yes, but "crypto" means something else. > Everyone seems to still think this is about creating new currencies. It's not. It's about greed and creating money for yourself. Currencies are just more direct. E…

> The multi-level marketing ponzi scheme things would still be present.

Yes, there are scams. But even in 2017 ICO days these were easy to spot - wailing and teeth nashing over ICO scams was dumb then and still is now.

> Yes, but "crypto" means something else.

I'm sorry but words mean what people who use them want them to mean in order to communicate ideas between them. Meanings evolve and words are co-opted and probably people should get over that.

> It's not. It's about greed and creating money for yourself. Currencies are just more direct.

I guess I can agree if what you mean by greed I replace with self-interest based mechanism design. I don't believe this needs to be zero sum, though. Maybe we'd differ on that.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#106
post #7

> Cryptocurrency is one of the worst inventions of the 21st century. I am ashamed to share an industry with this exploitative grift. It has failed to be a useful currency, invented a new class of internet abuse, further enriched the rich, wasted staggering amounts of electricity, hastened climate change, ruined hundreds of otherwise promising projects, provided a climate for hundreds of scams to flourish, created sho…

Now do the Federal Reserve. 1955 Tappan Zee bridge: $55 million. 2013 Tappan Zee bridge: $4 billion for basically the same bridge. Due in part to the destruction of the USD caused by the Fed.

> Due in part to the destruction of the USD caused by the Fed.

In small part. Inflation from 1955 to 2013 is almost exactly 9 times. That accounts for $495 million.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#107
post #96
post #68

Cryptocurrency bad -> explains why basically everything related to mining is bad instead of telling us why cryptocurrencies are bad. Should be named mining is a disaster. PS: I have no stakes in anything that requires mining not even gold.

Out of interest, do you hold any proof of stake currencies? I despise the externalities of proof of work, so interested in whether proof of stake is in a useful place yet.

I dont, but I probably will soon dude to an airdrop. Although not quiet sure if it counts as PoS because its does not run on PoS its just uses staking for some stuff.

Anyway my mininga statement was more of a joke because people would not trow gold into the rant about mining but are fine adding all other coins that have no mining at all.

Also not big fan of PoS as it has some of the same unwanted properties. So I dont intend to buy any PoS coins. I prefer FBA.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#108
post #40
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But cars had value. They have value. They had value from day 1. Cryptocurrencies just don't. It's all smoke and mirrors, where everything would be better without the blockchain. Without irreversibility. Without everything about it. There are whole books about how terrible and useless it is. And please do what the article said: How much of your own money is dependent on you selling the lie of cryptocurrency or smart c…

You don't think there's value in open-source, decentralized financial infrastructure? (Disclosure: I hold no cryptocurrencies, nor have any financial stake in the industry)

Hmm… taking your question at face value. Can you be more specific?

Is there value in nonreversibility? No, that "feature" has negative value, and it's the reason people trust credit cards.

Value in anonymity? Not at this scale, no. On net that feature just is not workable in a society built on anything other than libertarian-anarchy. And most people actually want a structured society, not fiefdoms.

Take KYC and AML laws, for example. What percentage of people do you think would say we should abolish them, if you explain what they are, and what they are for.

Open Source? The functioning of our traditional economy is pretty open in its working. It's complex, yes. But you are welcome to understand it, and participate in the process.

The "code" that the economy works on is legal code. I think where I disagree with you is that computer code is inherently more suitable. I say that as a professional programmer, who's been programming for decades.

Here's the thing: "The programs" was never the problem.

I can illustrate this best with smart contracts. They're a solution to a non-problem, while making the actual problem much worse. Contract disputes mainly come from disagreements about what the contract means, and errors in codifying intention as text.

Ability to enforce was never the biggest problem. Never. And by forcing the enforcement by using a smart contract it's actually making the problem worse, where "that's not what I meant". Yes, the default action in a real contract, without contextual evidence, is to take the wording of a contract literally (and oxford commas matter). But if there is other evidence, then yes a court will take that into account. Do you not want that? Do you honestly want a maliciously injected underhanded bug in a contract to be enforced, with no recourse?

I think the problem with your question is that people who ask it don't actually know what they're asking.

In the libertarian-anarchist utopia based on this infrastructure the enforcement methods are beyond the reach of the police. So what do you do when someone robs you? When someone uses a bug in a smart contract to take your house?

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#109
Crypto, gig working, social media, HFT, and ad tech are all symptoms of late-stage capitalism - perfectly neutral technical ideas that are completely unworkable in our current sociopolitical and economic structures.

Surely everyone would agree that putting our collective intelligence into 100-year timeframes for lifting all of humanity would be a great boon.. .

And yet we're stuck in Black Mirror world of fraud, exploitation, misinformation, "eff you, got mine" shenanigans.

Really exhausting as someone who grew up with a twinkle in his eye about changing the world through technology.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is an Abject Disaster

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We factor in the degree of aligned incentives they have to their argument. Oil companies can say 100% factual things about climate change too. You'd still put their arguments under more scrutiny than a non-profit panel of scientists.

In that same vein, I assume that anyone who comes out against crypto has little or no stake in it. And I’m usually correct.

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