Live data from Hacker News

Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

arstechnica.com

101–110 of 403 posts

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#101
post #65
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious are iTunes and similar stores licensing the music to you? I’m guessing it is a license and not ownership. In either case I can see them addressing this problem of lower velocity with subscription only licensing where you license tunes for X amount of time. Obviously not in the interest of consumers but I can see why sellers would go this route.

All Copyright is a license, you buy a physical CD you are also buying a copyright license. You are attempting to make a distinction when none is present or valid

No you don’t get a license with a CD, you just get an object.

It’s only copying that’s protected not existing physical copies. It’s the same with a book you get the physical book and that’s it. If the copyright expired then you can do all kinds of stuff with the book that you don’t otherwise get to do, barring a few exceptions that apply universally.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#102

Not the main point of the case, but I am curious how his account was terminated. Apple does that much less often than Google does (you're not posting death threats in YouTube comments using your Apple account). I'm also curious how he purchased $25k of apps and videos in only two years. Even if this is an extreme case, I hope that Apple (and other platforms) are forced to change their language and/or provide more gua…

> but I am curious how his account was terminated.

Most of the time the giants do not tell you what you done wrong. My son managed to get my Sony account banned for 2 months(from all online stuff including the PS Plus that I am I paid a year subscription), there is no way to appeal and the only thing Sony told me in the notification email is that it is about violence or sexual stuff , so fuck knows what t could be about , I know he shared some screenshots with weapons from a game - would be ironic to get flagged by game screenshots or it could be just malicious people reporting you (may idiotic kids are online playing Fortnite and are threatening each other with reports).

In my case i decided I will no longer buy any new product from Sony and I will probably jailbreak the console when I think the online features are no longer worth it.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#103
post #58
post #43

Apple could have avoided this issue entirely by allowing users to download the content without any DRM to a storage provider of their choice (ie, Dropbox, or local storage).

This is not even an option, since it will just make it easier to share files illegally and defeat the whole purpose of having an online movie store.

I disagree. Piracy was and still is very much a service problem. Just because people would have access to DRM-free movies does not mean they would automatically fire up bittorrent and start trading torrent files with their friends. That's still far too inconvenient.

I have lots of DRM-free games on GOG for instance. So do people I know. We've never had a single thought about pirating these. We're grown ups, we don't have time for that kind of thing.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#104

> class-action lawsuits over the meaning of the words “rent” and “buy.” Ohhhhh this is great news! This has been a personal soap box of mine for years and years. I really hope that the outcome will be that going forward at least, these words won't be used lightly anymore for risk of false advertising lawsuits. That should take care of a bunch of the "just rent it" business models that on second thought aren't really…

this is also something that im sure many friends of mine are tired of me talking about. "buy/purchase it now!" buttons are far more effective marketing-wise than "license it now!", which is one of the reasons why these companies are going to hang on with all the claws they've got.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#105

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

> Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

If you use iTunes, and "add to library," like I do, you'll see how often albums get removed or replaced or remixed. It's unnecessary and unnerving. The labels are constantly faffing about with albums. Every couple of months, I'll go to play an album, and find that it only has, say, 2 songs in it. Sometimes I can go back and re-add it to my library, sometimes, there's a new "remastered" copy, and sometimes those songs are just no longer available in iTunes. I pay for the subscription, and don't buy music. And I'm glad. I don't know why these changes wouldn't happen to me even if I had paid for it, but maybe that would be exempted? If someone can tell me that this doesn't happen if I buy the album, I would snatch up some of my favorites right away.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really surprised to see Apple taking this approach. You'd think they could have come up with something less offensive to their users. This is the exact same line Sidney Powell is using in her defense against Dominion: "'No Reasonable Person' Thought Her Election Fraud Claims Were Fact" [0]. Amused but not surprised to see this from her, I am quite aghast to see this from Apple. The fact is, just like any reasonable p…

> This is the exact same line Sidney Powell is using in her defense against Dominion: "'No Reasonable Person' Thought Her Election Fraud Claims Were Fact" [0]. Amused but not surprised to see this from her, I am quite aghast to see this from Apple. The sentence in the filing is true: no reasonable person would see her opinion about an event as a fact. Opinions are not facts. Powell's problem is that her "facts" used…

So if I "buy" an Apple M1 series computer, am I renting it or buying it? The only thing Apple can do to hardware is to quit supporting it via software updates, but I am still free to use it with the last supported software as long as it runs. (Depending on make/model/build quality, that may actually stop before software support ends like the 2016-2017 MBPs.)

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#107
I feel its fair to give content providers a few options, but they must be forced into it by our government by choosing one of:

1. Provide an unencumbered, fungible export of the content purchased, either at the time of the customer's choosing or once upon account termination (for any reason whatsoever).

2. Provide a full refund of purchased content at the time of content-provider initiated account termination (for any reason whatsoever).

3. Replace the language on these types of purchases with the word "Rent", with an associated rental timeframe of exactly these words: "Indefinitely, until {ContentProvider} permanently revokes your access with no warning, reason, or recourse."

"That's a lot of words to fit on a one-click checkout button" -> Yeah, that's the problem. These companies have spent years lying to their customers about digital content availability, driving growth and dominance by hiding the truth and making it easy. All of that text needs to be upfront, right where the customer sees it; not hidden behind a popup dialog with a cute little question mark next to it.

"That text is kinda scary, and doesn't properly represent the average consumer's experience" -> Well, that's weird, because that's almost exactly how most of these providers word the terms of these purchases in their terms of service. You know, those documents no one reads.

The fact that content providers can, at a moment's notice, revoke anyone's access to potentially thousands of dollars of purchased content, for any reason, with no recourse, is absolutely insane. Its one of the biggest mockeries of our digital age. It should never have been allowed; its a pattern that only gained market traction because no average, reasonable, typical customer realizes or considers that these service providers can take away their content.

To be clear: There is a ton of digital content which needs to be classified under this banner; its not just movies.

* Movies & TV (iTunes, Amazon, Google Play).

* Books (iTunes, Amazon, Google Play). Some of these providers are nearly compliant, offering decently accessible exports in oftentimes DRM-encumbered formats. DRM has to go to be compliant with (1); if that's not an option, well, there are other ways.

* Music (iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Bandcamp). Almost everyone here is already compliant thanks to MP3/AAC/FLAC/etc exports. Awesome!

* App Store Apps & In-App Purchases (Apple, Google). Attaining compliance with (1) here is almost impossible (though a point-in-time, downloadable and independently installable application package may work! the gall to consider offering that!)

* Digital Video Games (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Valve, Epic, Google Stadia, Amazon Luna). At least some of these providers are so close; just strip the DRM and you can be compliant with (1). I mean jeeze, offering a refund would suck wouldn't it; wouldn't it just be better to be friendly to your past customers?

* Video Game Digital Content (Epic/Fortnite, EA/Apex Legends, Activision/Call of Duty, etc). Many of these games sell in-game cosmetic and/or gameplay-altering items; some of them sell in-game lottery cards that will give you these items. These games are actually the worst offenders of the whole list, because they all run anti-cheat systems that are horribly inaccurate in-terms of false-negatives and false-positives. People just get banned, for literally no reason except "they got reported a lot and were running some RGB software for their keyboard" every single day. Everyone banned by these systems is marked a dirty cheater; they'll ignore your support requests, and sometimes even hardware-id your computer and share those hardware-id lists with other game companies. Compliance with (1) is impossible. They need to offer refunds or be honest about what you're buying; this may tangentially add a direct profit incentive to building good, accurate anti-cheat, which is something nearly none of them care about.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#108

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

> Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online. If you use iTunes, and "add to library," like I do, you'll see how often albums get removed or replaced or remixed. It's unnecessary and unnerving. The labels are constantly faffing about with albums. Every couple of months, I'll go to play an album, and find that it only has, say, 2 songs in it. Sometimes I can go back a…

The same stuff also happened to some albums that I actually “bought” long before Apple started a music subscription service.
Post reply on HN