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Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

washingtonpost.com

101–110 of 275 posts

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#101

Modest mouse called this one but probably not for the reasons they were thinking of. “Here's the man with teeth like God's shoeshine He sparkles shimmers shines Let's all have another Orange Julius Thick syrup standing in lines The malls are the soon to be ghost towns So long, farewell, good-bye”

I don’t know why this downvoted. Great excerpt from peak 90s album. In the broader context, Americans aren’t finding what they want in malls today but the dissatisfaction has been brewing for younger non baby boomer generations.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#102
post #84

Malls seem like the perfect mixed use type property. Stores on 1 floor, offices on 2nd floor, then 2-3 floors of housing. 1 of the big department stores could be a grocery store.

That's what a normal town looks like pretty much anywhere outside of North America. I don't know town planners love exclusive zoning so much here.

The circulation of a business's customers is regarded as a toxic impact to nearby housing. There is a decent amount of mixed zoning, actually, for businesses that rarely or never have customers visit in person.

So these days maybe malls are a perfect fit!

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#103
post #13

"Malls are dying" seems like a "the suit is back" sort of meme. I've literally been hearing this for 20+ years. And the mall near me seems busier than ever. Someone must be pushing this for some reason. People shorting mall real estate?

yup here they keep building more malls and all i hear is malls are dying... they build a mall almost in the middle of no where and yet its still busy. Just recently they built a mall next to a busy mall...

where are malls dying?

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#104
post #13

"Malls are dying" seems like a "the suit is back" sort of meme. I've literally been hearing this for 20+ years. And the mall near me seems busier than ever. Someone must be pushing this for some reason. People shorting mall real estate?

Pretty sure that "Malls are dying" is large part negativity bias - cities don't get "too crowded" with malls, so we never experience having "too many" of them, but we DO experience having them close down. A mall closing down will stick out much more to a person than a new one coming up. It doesn't help that malls are practically designed to get old and decrepit - malls are built to a completed state - once one is bui…

where? here our malls have gotten massive updates, expansions and renovations over the years, not one is closed that would be a waste of a busy business...

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#105
post #65
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably more like there’s semantics triggered fear in having home literally on top of a supermarket, as opposed to two being mentally separate.

I remember seeing a condo complex on top of a Ralph’s in San Diego: the Ralph’s was 24 hour and it always struck me as being incredibly convenient (the condos had an elevator direct into the store) - who needs a pantry at all when you have a 24hr grocery store literally five seconds away?

I used to live above the Safeway near the Giants baseball stadium in San Francisco - it wasn’t 24 hours at the time (not sure if it is now) but you’re right, it was crazy convenient.

Far less food waste too, I’d rarely buy more than a bag’s worth of food at a time and would just go shop 3+ times per week.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#106
post #4

I have trouble buying clothes online. It's hard to determine fit, shipping things back is a hassle beyond comprehension, and it's impossible to try things on (which is fun). Malls need to improve along a number of dimensions. Better dining, easier transportation or integration into live / work / play mixed use, and addition of grocery stores would make them better than Amazon. Add a Target to any mall and it's twice…

It is important to distinguish between malls and other types of property. Malls were built around cornerstone tenants, and the idea was agglomeration: one big tenant, lots of small single units, everyone wins. The death of malls is due to (often, but not always) location and amenities but, primarily, because the cornerstone tenants just sell things that no-one wants and they have way too much space.

Transportation is essential (and underrated). I am in the UK, we have a huge share of online retail but some large physical retailers are totally fine (Next is a well-known one)...if they pivoted their stores ten years ago to locations with strong traffic links. Local councils during the pandemic shut down parking, that basically finished small-time retail (not an exaggeration, most of these changes have been made permanent, single-unit operators won't ever be able to reopen because councils have shut down parking everywhere). And adding multi-use units (food, film, gyms, etc.) is also another strong play. But it is only easy to do this if your model doesn't revolve around a cornerstone tenant, and you have flexibility in your space. The locations doing well here have been able to flexibly add amenities (post-2008, these places were dead but slowly added restaurants as the economy recovered) and are composed of medium-sized units with no one cornerstone tenant.

The issue is largely structural. Most malls can't improve. They can't suddenly change the economics of having too much space. They can't change the price gap between warehouses and retail (or the debt backing these prices). The only solution is going to be BK and conversion into other forms of commercial property (largely warehouses but some offices/mixed-use). It will be other areas that thrive, not old areas being revived (look at what happened to inner cities when chain department stores took off and people moved to the suburbs...a lot of these places just died because the issue was structural).

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#107
is this a American thing? here in Canada malls are doing well and we keep building even more sometimes next to busy malls... its strange even they tell us Toys R Us is gone? yet they are not closed here basically all the malls have a Toys R Us..

whats up with the states?

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#108

USA Malls are a symptom of car sprawl, and are textbook terrible landuse planning; they happen to have a super-simple business formula and appeal to certain fiefdom's egos.. cannot be fast enough for these formats to dry up, in my opinion

Malls here in Bangkok are crowded, vibrant places. I think it makes a big difference that most of them are directly accessible from train system.

I've been to many malls in south east Asia and found them much nicer. Lots of good food usually and better integrated into the city. Often adjacent to residential areas.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#109
post #79

Malls could be the best co-working offices. Ample daytime parking, baller food courts, medical facilities, hair dressers, dentists, cafes, movie theaters, entertainment, etc all under one roof.

Epic Games bought a nearly 1 million sq-ft mall to convert into a new headquarters

https://www.polygon.com/2021/1/4/22213102/epic-games-buys-ma...

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