Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

politico.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 116 posts

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#101

Post by rsynnott »

fighterpilot wrote: post #70
rvieira wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand your comment. "we shall fight them on the beaches" is war-time motivational speech. We live in peace-time (in Europe at least). In a stable, peace-time society, disputes are solved in courts.

I got the spirit of the comment. At the beginning of the pandemic, there should've been overwhelming support for therapeutics and vaccines. Multiple countries should've been preparing manufacturing facilities well in advance, and those that couldn't should've been scrambling to order from every vendor just in case. A "war effort" if you will. Instead we got a very inward and reactionary response (lockdowns etc) but l…

> Multiple countries should've been preparing manufacturing facilities well in advance

They _did_. The only reason that production has gone as well as it has (particularly with Pfizer and Biontec) is massive public and private investment in facilities.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#102

Post by rsynnott »

throw-8462682 wrote: post #13

At this point, AZ must really regret having gone down the road of working with Oxford to supply a Covid vaccine. They are not even making money off it at the moment. Pfizer on the other hand hit gold with their BioNTech collaboration. They are making 10+ B this year and probably even more in brand value. AZ on the other hand lost billions of brand value. Is there a morale of this story?

The moral of the story is, don't contract to deliver 100 million widgets in a quarter and then actually deliver 30 million widgets. It's pretty simple; remove the vaccine context and there's nothing at all controversial going on here.

Missing production forecasts is one thing, but missing them by this much is unusual and will usually result in trouble for the manufacturer.

Really, I'd say it's more the case that Oxford is regretting working with AZ, rather than a more established vaccine manufacturer.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#103

Post by rsynnott »

codebeaker wrote: post #19

Sorry if this is considered off-topic, but I mus thave surely missed something about why AstraZeneca is seemingly the only choice on the vaccine market. I am German, we developed the Pfizer vaccine, but there is _no_ news about it, it seems like the AZ vaccine is the only option. Is it a case that Pfizer wasn't viable, wasn't used here, or only made lucrative contracts with other countries, or is it being used, quiet…

Eh? Most vaccines being used in Germany, and everywhere else in Europe, are pfizer/biontec. AZ accounts for maybe 25% of supply and dropping.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#104

Post by rsynnott »

zpeti wrote: post #90
rsynnott wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is your brain on the Daily Mail, I think... There is no approved French vaccine.

Macron wanted to use this vaccine as a matter of national pride. He talked down Astrazeneca because of it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/26/french-self-es... Things have changed a lot since then, it's been forgotten.

I'm not sure how you're getting that from that article (which doesn't even _mention_ AZ). If France had wanted to specifically use a French vaccine it would presumably have pursued an independent purchasing model, like the UK and Hungary.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#105

Post by mort96 »

JI00912 wrote: post #92
mort96 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you could possibly call this an attempt at plan economy, unless you consider all solicitation of a product by a government to be plan economy? How is this fundamentally any different from the US's purchasing of doses from BioNTech/Pfizer? I'm sure the US would take legal action against Pfizer if they weren't delivering doses according to the agreement?

Because the doses provided are a function of how well the tool chain works and not of weather or not they have to meet a particular target or at what level the target is set.

"The EU is attempting a planned economy because the amount of doses depends on how well the production tool chain works". I don't think that follows? Is there a missing link here?

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#106

Post by rsynnott »

throwaway10110 wrote: post #2

To be honest here in Ireland where majority of vaccinations have been Pfizer people seemed to stop caring about AZ and there is a sizeable chunk of people who are refusing AZ (my own elderly parents and their siblings really scared now and in despair) due to issues recently highlighted (dont shoot messenger, imho risks are small but i can see why some might be hesitant when alternatives are/will be available) I say t…

> To be honest here in Ireland where majority of vaccinations have been Pfizer people seemed to stop caring about AZ

That's the case now that Pfizer supply has been ramped up, but our vaccine program would be far more progressed if AZ had delivered. Ireland was supposed to get about 1 million AZ doses in Q1, 3 million by end of Q2. Actual number delivered so far is more like 300k.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#107

Post by PunchTornado »

rsynnott wrote: post #102
throw-8462682 wrote: post #13

At this point, AZ must really regret having gone down the road of working with Oxford to supply a Covid vaccine. They are not even making money off it at the moment. Pfizer on the other hand hit gold with their BioNTech collaboration. They are making 10+ B this year and probably even more in brand value. AZ on the other hand lost billions of brand value. Is there a morale of this story?

The moral of the story is, don't contract to deliver 100 million widgets in a quarter and then actually deliver 30 million widgets. It's pretty simple; remove the vaccine context and there's nothing at all controversial going on here. Missing production forecasts is one thing, but missing them by this much is unusual and will usually result in trouble for the manufacturer. Really, I'd say it's more the case that Oxfo…

also don't fulfil 1 contract at 100% and another one at 30%..

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#108

Post by rsynnott »

jpxw wrote: post #43
throwaway10110 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under 30s in UK are not recommended AZ jab Its same in other countries ranging from no restriction to restriction being to anything up to under 60s not recommended is not same as "banned" stop reading UK tabloids.

Hang on, I don’t think it’s “not recommended” to under 30s. I think under 30s are just given the choice of an alternative vaccine, if they’d like it. In many EU countries, the vaccine was banned for large segments of the population for extended periods of time.

Supply of AZ is so limited in the EU that the EU can afford to be more conservative with recommendations; it's not like de facto restricting AZ to 60-75 (common in European countries) actually slows down vaccination, because there isn't enough AZ available to vaccinate that age group anyway; even if all the AZ is dedicated to it it some of that cohort end up getting Pfizer.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#109

Post by turing_complete »

oaiey wrote: post #37
rjzzleep wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still waiting too see long term effects of all adenovirus based vaccines. I'm kinda estimating there to be an increased risk of strokes overall. But I'm constantly baffled at Germany's vaccine response. Remember that Pfizer's vaccine is developed by the German company and that the president of the European commission used to be Germany's Minister of Family/Labour and Defense. But in a way that's a result of their…

Arrogance. No. It is very simple: Germany does not have the concept of "National Security" and does not act like that. Germany has many big pharmaceuticals in the country. But guess what: We Germans searched a solution in a European context. We tried to not only vaccinate all of us but also everyone around us. We are exporting the shots all over the world (Canada as an example is supplied by Germany and not by the US…

As a German: this very belief that Germany does not have a concept of national security or national interests and that Germany alone can sacrifice and save the world is the new form of German arrogance.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#110

Post by tzs »

throw-8462682 wrote: post #62
rjzzleep wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a seriously fucked up response to personally attack someone that made a statement based on existing research that YOU don't know about, just because YOU decided to divide the world into two people. Those that YOU think agree (which you conveniently labeled vaxers) and those that YOU disagree with. Not only that, but you don't even have the balls to actually use your account to write that incendiary comment. It's…

Respectfully, are you a doctor? I am not. That link is from 2007 and talks about a modified Adenovirus. There’s so much medical jargon in there that I can’t make any sense of it, let alone connect it to increased risk of strokes for an Adenovirus based COVID vaccine. I understand why vaccines can be scary but ask yourself this: is your unease based on a deep medical understanding of the subject matter, or an underbel…

In a dead comment, you state:

> Adenovirus vaccines are extremely common

I believe you may be confusing adenovirus vaccines and vaccines that use adenovisues as vectors. The former protects against adenovirus infection, the later uses an adenovirus as a vector to vaccinate against some other virus.

There is a sort of common adenovirus vaccine [1].

Adenovirus as a vector is new. There is an adenovirus vector Ebola virus that is approved. I think that is the only one. The only others deployed are for COVID under emergency use authorizations. There are several for other diseases in development, but the farthest along are still in clinical trials.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenovirus_vaccine

Post reply on HN