Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#101

Post by GeekyBear » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 3:11 AM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #100

GeekyBear wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress has been using their power of the purse to forbid using Federal dollars to prosecute people and businesses in states where pot is legal every year since 2014. https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-medical-pot-20141216-st... Although the courts eventually had to shut down the Obama DOJ for continuing to prosecute in those states anyway. https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-medical-pot-201... The votes…

I don't see why that means there will be a tie.

>The votes are there

I'm not saying there will be a tie. I'm saying the votes to pass it are there.

Senators have just been afraid to openly support it.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#102

Post by ddingus » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 3:13 AM UTC

1cvmask wrote: post #2

Majority of Americans support Medicare for All. But both parties are against it. Marijuana legalization is easier to pass than healthcare because there are no entrenched corporate interests against it: https://morningconsult.com/2021/03/24/medicare-for-all-publi...

Yes, and corporate interests are looking at great opportunities. Actually moving toward being for it.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#103

Post by Balgair » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 3:15 AM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #82

protomyth wrote: post #44

I still don't understand how DUI is going to work? The testing doesn't seem to have kept up with the desires of the public.

Do we have the science to know how safe/unsafe it is to drive under the influence of marijuana?

There have been a few studies out of CO that I can't find at the moment. The gist is that it's less safe than being sober, but a bit more safe than driving drunk. Unfortunately, the real finding is that combining the two is a lot less safe than either on their own and that a lot of drivers are choosing to cross-fade.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#104

Post by ddingus » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 3:23 AM UTC

jacob2484 wrote: post #15

1cvmask wrote: post #2

Majority of Americans support Medicare for All. But both parties are against it. Marijuana legalization is easier to pass than healthcare because there are no entrenched corporate interests against it: https://morningconsult.com/2021/03/24/medicare-for-all-publi...

Majority of Americans do NOT support Medicare for All. Please reread your article - they want a public option, which differs from Medicare.

When we poll with what Medicare for All will do, support is massive.

Health care in the US is an increasingly brutal, over the top expensive mess.

Frankly, a quick look at why they want a public option is exactly why they would easily support Medicare for All.

Nobody loves their health care insurance company. And where they may be stoic to positive, it is only because they are insulated from the mess, or just have not actually had to receive significant care of any kind.

Tons of people, myself included, have seen serious financial ruin, and in my case it boiled down to basically trading my home and financial future for my spouse.

We got past it, but will never see the future I worked very hard for.

Health insurance companies do not actually add any value. Most of the developed world understands this, and how a market approach for primary care conflicts with fixing sick people.

Right now the priority is making money, not fixing people, and it shows.

More people experience it, or know someone who has every day. I make damn sure to educate others any time, any day, any place.

Once people actually experience Medicare, they love it. I have watched even the most staunch advocates for our current system age in and then change their tune.

There are exceptions, and those people buy Medicare Advantage plans and often seek help getting back to plain old Medicare, which is very difficult, by design. Ever wonder why that is?

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#105

Post by ddingus » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 3:25 AM UTC

ike0790 wrote: post #80

1cvmask wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: “55% of voters support Medicare for All” and 70 percent support a public option. 55% is a majority.

The federal government is horrible at competing in the free market when it comes to pretty much any good/service. For medicare to have a chance, they would need to eliminate the private market for healthcare. No one that can afford private healthcare would opt for government healthcare. Those who truly rely on government healthcare I assume wouldn't pay the monthly premium. We could defund the war machine but neither…

Primary health care, as a market, is illegal in much of the world.

Most of the world disagrees with what you put here and performs better than the US.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#106

Post by wwweston » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

jshawl wrote: post #49

wwweston wrote: post #16

I've supported legalization efforts in two states. But I kindof have regrets, now. And in fact, if I were in charge, I might leave it as an infraction. I don't really want it to be illegal, but as far as I can tell, the same thing that happens to cigarette smokers happens to weed smokers: perspective on the fact that smoking is the atmospheric equivalent of peeing in the pool is lost. And I wake up like I did last ni…

Is there another window in your house you can open so that the airflow comes in from the other side of the house?

There are literally no other windows in my apartment except those adjoining this shared patio.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#107

Post by wwweston » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

kapp_in_life wrote: post #45

CardenB wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want weed to be illegal because you don't like the smell of the smoke?

It sounds more likely they would like it to be illegal for one to force others to be subject to second hand smoke.

Correct. As I wrote in my earlier comment, I have zero problem with people choosing it for themselves, as long as it's kept personal and I don't get opted in to anyone's smoking choices.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#108

Post by wwweston » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

dumbfoundded wrote: post #88

wwweston wrote: post #16

I've supported legalization efforts in two states. But I kindof have regrets, now. And in fact, if I were in charge, I might leave it as an infraction. I don't really want it to be illegal, but as far as I can tell, the same thing that happens to cigarette smokers happens to weed smokers: perspective on the fact that smoking is the atmospheric equivalent of peeing in the pool is lost. And I wake up like I did last ni…

This is a pretty silly way to think about the issue. Loud music, dogs barking, kids running around on the floor above you, smoke of any kind, a bed frame hitting the wall repeatedly. I wouldn't rethink the legal status of music, dogs or children because of some bad neighbors.

Noise ordinances are absolutely a thing, and common.

Smoke ordinances would be at least that reasonable.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#109

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 3:35 AM UTC

GeekyBear wrote: post #99

dragonwriter wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Congress has been using their power of the purse to forbid using Federal dollars to prosecute those in states where pot is legal every year since 2014. No, they prohibit prosecuting use consistent with state medical use laws; in both 2019 and 2020 the House voted to extend that to state-legal use generally, but the Senate didn’t go along. (The House, but not the Senate, also passed a decriminalization bill in 2020.…

I seem to remember the Trump DOJ threatening to renew prosecutions and members of Congress making it clear that they would expand the prosecution ban if they had to. They are perfectly willing to make pot legal, however, they prefer to avoid looking like they are doing so as long as possible. Biden's open opposition is the bigger issue here. Lets not forget who was behind a lot of the drug war legislation. >Biden was…

> I seem to remember the Trump DOJ threatening to renew prosecutions and members of Congress making it clear that they would expand the prosecution ban if they had to.

If its not “sufficient numbers of Republican members of the Senate to force McConnell to actually allow it on the floor”—and it wasn’t—it was an empty threat; the House actually passed an expanded prosecution ban twice and a general decriminalization, none of those made it into any bill on the Senate floor.

> Biden's open opposition is the bigger issue here.

Not really, Biden publicly supports legalization of medical marijuana, decriminalization, rescheduling, permitting state choice on legalization, and automatic record expungement. This differs from federal legalization substantively only in that there would be federal backup for states that choose not to legalize, and has not openly opposed (or supported) the stronger legalization proposals now being announced by, among others, much of the Democratic Senate leadership.

The only meaningful barrier to something very close to full legalization is support in the Senate, mainly the potential of a filibuster, but there’s a couple uncertain D votes (like Manchin) that could prevent even a bare majority.

The President and the majority of the Democratic caucus have different positions, but not far enough apart to be a real barrier to lawmaking.

> Biden was a major Democratic leader in spearheading America’s war on drugs during the 1980s and ’90s.

Yeah, but its not the 80s and 90s; its the 2020s, and Biden has a very different position today.

Re: Americans overwhelmingly say marijuana should be legal

#110

Post by sneak » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 3:41 AM UTC

nathanaldensr wrote: post #96

sneak wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society has no claim over whether or not I (or anyone else) choose to cause permanent brain damage to myself. That's the point: drug prohibition is inherently immoral because it denies an adult human being agency over their own body. It's mine to destroy if I see fit; it's mine to build it I see fit. There is no victim, for example, if I decide to cut off my finger. No one has been wronged, and no crime has occurred.

You are incredibly naive. Have you seen a family member fall to addiction? Have you seen what it does to those around them who love them? We aren't just floating brain vessels in space; we live in a complex society of interdependencies and close biological bonds. Your choices nearly always affect others, especially with something like addiction.

We're not talking about addiction. We're talking about criminal penalties for the possession of drugs, which is entirely orthogonal to addiction, and which was initially deployed on a large scale specifically to jail and resume enslaving nonwhite people in the USA into forced labor camps. (To this end it has worked rather well.)

If you think drugs should be illegal "because addiction", then at least be consistent and go after tobacco and alcohol. Tobacco kills 10x more than opiates in the USA, and alcohol 6x, but somehow it's the opiate epidemic that makes the news.

Once we can agree that a) the law should be fair and consistent and b) adults should be allowed to drink alcohol if they want, we can get to c) people should be allowed to drink any damn thing they like and it's nobody else's business.