Do others also find it strange that the postal service has their own police force?
Less strange than the Department of Education having one.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2013/01/...
The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts
101–110 of 261 posts
Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, look at it from totally the opposite direction to see their point of view. Your workers are under threat from poorly made postal bombs that could easily blow up during processing, killing your workers. Due to the vast volume of post you process, the threat is real and non-trivial. Do you do nothing? I think you obviously have to do something, whether you go as far as they did is what's up for debate.
You don't even have to say bombs, the article lists a great example. They are tracking protests. I think I would like to be aware if where I normally deliver mail I'm walking into a protest that might get violent.
The FBI (or some other agency) can investigate these things and send out notices to government agencies operating in the area. It seems like you are advocating for every single government agency to monitor the internet for potential protests in their area? Why duplicate the work when we can get people who are experts handle it?
Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bombs in packages isn't the only thing that threatens postal workers that USPS is trying to protect. For example, look at this[0]. Two people physically attacked a postal worker after accusing her of "stealing their stimulus checks"[1]. Sure, you can say that this case had nothing to do with USPS surveillance. But it just goes to show that there are plenty of serious dangers to postal workers other than just nigh-non…
That has nothing to do with this issue. The article is about USPS investigating online threats. Do you really think people who are going to beat USPS workers are going to post about it online and that the USPS would be better equipped than agencies whose sole purpose is to deal with these kind of things? If you think every postal worker should have some sort of security / police going with them on their routes that i…
>That has nothing to do with this issue
It addresses the comment that essentially boiled down to "why would they want this, letter bombs almost never happen", and I simply have shown other reasons for why they might want it. I wasn't addressing the article, I was addressing a specific comment.
>Do you really think people who are going to beat USPS workers are going to post about it online [...]
Yes, it does happen. People publicly post on twitter about their plans to vandalize property and such, so I don't see this scenario out of reach at all.
>[...] and that the USPS would be better equipped than agencies whose sole purpose is to deal with these kind of things?
No, but USPS would be able to use this as a clue of something brewing and make the relevant agencies aware, all while dealing with ad-hoc mitigations (e.g., if the threat seems credible on the surface, prepare tentative re-routing plans for their drivers to avoid that area, in case the agencies confirm that the threat is credible; if the agencies confirm that the threat isn't credible, everything proceeds as usual).
Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, when will the USPS do something about the 0 postal workers killed from letter bombs this year, last year, the year before last, the year before last before last year, ...? More of them are endangered by their shitbox LLV trucks catching on fire.
when will the USPS do something about the 0 postal workers killed from letter bombs this year And how do you think that number became zero? Magic bomb-negating fairies?
Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
If there is a bomb threat why can't the FBI or DHS investigate? That is the entire purpose of those agencies. Should every government agency have a department to investigate threats towards their employees? Why limit it to just the USPS? Why not give investigative powers to the Agency for Global Media or the Administration for Community Living? Should those employees have to risk the very "real and non-trivial" threa…
Agency for Global Media has their own law enforcement that investigates threats against the agency and it’s personnel. This ranges from securing HQ against protests to investigating what happens to broadcast infrastructure in war zones like Afghanistan to securing classified information.
I chose a random agency without checking what exactly they do. The specific agencies I mentioned are irrelevant to the actual points I was making.
We don't need every single agency to handle investigating threats to themself. It just doesn't make financial or practical sense. We can use the FBI, Secret Service, DHS, etc to deal with protecting the entire government and their employees. This will eliminate duplication and make it easier to share threat information.
One problem we have is the lack of information being shared with the correct agencies. This was allegedly the cause of some terrorist attacks not being stopped. If there are only a couple agencies that handle security and threat investigations instead of 100s it will already be in the hands of the correct agency. We should be striving for a streamlined process that removes duplication instead of hoping every single agency can do the job well.
Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts
#106Lots of sentiment today that the USPS is way out of its zone of expertise in doing this -- and that is possible. But it's worth noting that the USPS has had its own legion of postal inspectors going back to the 19th century, when they were a (comparatively) huge part of the U.S. government, and the FBI, etc. did not exist. Some 1,200 postal inspectors are still around, and they play important roles on federal prosecu…
"When our Corps goes in as guards over the mail, that mail must be delivered," wrote Secretary of the Navy Edwin Denby. "Or there must be a Marine dead at the post of duty. There can be no compromise." https://www.military.com/off-duty/2020/08/25/intense-rules-u... The mail is serious business.
That was a wild read.
> Q. Suppose the thief was apparently unarmed but was running away?
> A. Call halt twice at the top of your voice, and if he does not halt, fire one warning shot; and if he does not obey this, shoot to hit him.
There was no chill during the great depression:
> Q. If I hear the command 'Hands Up,' am I justified in obeying this order?
> A. No; fall to the ground and start shooting.
Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts
#107Pretty much any federal agency you have heard of has an investigative dept that employs federal special agents. These are law enforcement roles with the same training, authority, and responsibilities as investigative agents in the FBI, etc. They were created to meet the specific law enforcement needs of each agency. Dept of Education agents investigate misuse of Dept of Education funds, for example. The Postal Inspec…
> So it’s not that surprising that these agencies will seem to stray out of their lanes.
Like the secret service (Treasury agents) becoming the President’s bodyguards?
Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now I'm worried they might find out that I've been using this newfangled technology called "email" for the past 25 years and I haven't licked a stamp in over a decade. Some say its only used for money laundering and drug dealing, but I think it's rather convenient and more innovative than what the government can offer.
If only some other kind of mail had become popular to replace the lost letter volume...
Can you imagine if USPS ran an email service and all of the legal protections afforded to our mailboxes and the contents of our postal communications applied just the same? The internet would be a completely different place. In a good way, I think.
Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
The postal service, as a Constitutionally-mandated requirement of the federal government (though the post itself is a private company, responsibility for ensuring there is a post and that it works is Congress's), is some very old and very serious law and enforcement. The Postal Inspection Service traces its lineage to 1772; the FBI to 1908. USPIS being separate from the FBI is one of those quirks of American enforcem…
> Constitutionally-mandated requirement of the federal government The constitution says: "The Congress shall have Power [...] To establish Post Offices and post Roads;" This is not a constitutional mandate. It is constitutional authorization. The federal government is not obligated to fully exercise every power it is granted.
In this case, and speaking specifically around the time that the Constitution was ratified, I suspect a Congress that failed to exercise that power would have been replaced by a Congress willing to, since people liked receiving correspondence and it was fairly vital to doing any kind of long distance business.
Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts
#110Lots of sentiment today that the USPS is way out of its zone of expertise in doing this -- and that is possible. But it's worth noting that the USPS has had its own legion of postal inspectors going back to the 19th century, when they were a (comparatively) huge part of the U.S. government, and the FBI, etc. did not exist. Some 1,200 postal inspectors are still around, and they play important roles on federal prosecu…
> going back to the 19th century
18th, even. From the same Wikipedia article you shared:
> The Postal Inspection Service has the oldest origins of any federal law enforcement agency in the United States. It traces its roots back to 1772 when colonial Postmaster General Benjamin Franklin first appointed a "surveyor" to regulate and audit the mails. Thus, the Service's origins—in part—predate the Declaration of Independence, and therefore the United States itself.