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Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

jorislacance.fr

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Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#101

Post by guenthert »

beckman466 wrote: post #76
mahathu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't help but wonder how many lives this feature has ruined I agree with your comment completely, but isn't this a bit a bit of an exaggeration?

> I agree with your comment completely, but isn't this a bit a bit of an exaggeration? No. Many global south countries like Brazil use WhatsApp instead of sms, and not being able to control what information you push out is therefore dangerous. As someone else wrote in this sub, you don’t need to first ‘friend’ or link with someone on WhatsApp before they can see all your info (like how often and how long someone is o…

> women are stalked and victims of violence more than men

This is going to be a bit off-topic now, but I'd say by violence above only physical violence is meant. If verbal and psychological abuse is included, the balance isn't quite so obvious.

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#102

Post by Hallucinaut »

0xcafecafe wrote: post #92
outime wrote: post #34

>Nobody uses Signal in France [from the 5000 sample] If one would've come to HN and read the last few months worth of posts you'd come to think that a lot of people from around the world moved to Signal. But then again this is a reminder about how little HN represents compared to the general population's tech choices.

That signal move backfired for me. Before it was just whatsapp. Now with some folks from my generation moving to signal and the older folks from the parent's generation staying with whatsapp, I have had to maintain presence across 2 chat applications.

What's the actual cost here? You have one app open or another, no different to two distinct chatgroups in WhatsApp except for some small extra CPU cost for changing app focus if switching between them.

The only issue I've seen is when I want to add someone who's only WhatsApp to a Signal chat, which has happened maybe twice until they also joined.

Personally I feel good about taking even a small amount of Comms out of Zuckerberg's clutches

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#103

Post by guenthert »

temp667 wrote: post #73
puttycat wrote: post #14

I've been using WhatsApp for years, reluctantly since it is the de-facto SMS standard in my country. I will never, ever, understand the "online" status feature. It is ridiculously invasive and cannot ever be turned off or even hidden from specific contacts. This is a SMS client, not a chat client, and revealing a user's online status is highly problematic both socially and security-wise. I can't help but wonder how m…

I can't help but wondering how many lives WhatsApp has helped. And it is definitely NOT an SMS client. The entire reason it has become so popular is that it does not use SMS. Before WhatsApp - the govt in these countries - supposedly looking out for the common good - allowed telecom carriers (usually giant oligarchs) to charge OBSENE per msg rates.

I do remember when SMS where actually free in Germany (where customarily telecoms charge you an arm & a leg). This led to people carrying mobile phones (era before smart phones), but only ever used SMS. You've seen them 'simsen' in bars, coffee shops, everywhere. Looked quite funny then (even though we appreciated that they stopped talking loudly on their phones all the time everywhere). I still can't quite get used to the view of people with a screen glued to their face.

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#104

Post by darkport »

I've always wanted to do something similar at scale. Generate all possible random mobile numbers 11^10, check if they have a WhatsApp profile pic and run it through AWS' rekognition celebrity model (https://docs.aws.amazon.com/rekognition/latest/dg/celebritie...). You could identify the personal numbers for a _lot_ of VIPs, politicians, etc.

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#105

Post by guru4consulting »

puttycat wrote: post #14

I've been using WhatsApp for years, reluctantly since it is the de-facto SMS standard in my country. I will never, ever, understand the "online" status feature. It is ridiculously invasive and cannot ever be turned off or even hidden from specific contacts. This is a SMS client, not a chat client, and revealing a user's online status is highly problematic both socially and security-wise. I can't help but wonder how m…

you can turn on airplane mode, quickly check whatsapp messages, get out and turn off airplane mode. It is a dirty hack, but it also helps you to spend minimal time on whatsapp.

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#106

Post by filoleg »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #87
rpadovani wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone with your number, and it reports when you have the application open. Assuming WhatsApp is the first and last app you open in the day (good morning and good night messages) you know how long a person sleeps, and this is only a very easy analysis you can do. I am sure you can find something more interesting recording when people open an app.

OK, yeah I agree that should be configurable, or at least limited to contacts. Maybe it should only count as online if you're actively using the app instead of having it open in the background. I'm sure many people just have it open 24/7. If I still used it, I would want an option to only receive messages when I'm online.

>Maybe it should only count as online if you're actively using the app instead of having it open in the background

Not sure about desktop clients and not sure about what you mean by "open in the background" in this specific case, but I can answer this for mobile WhatsApp apps specifically. For those, it only tracks when you actually have the app open in your main view.

More specifically, if you just have the app in the background while using some other app, it doesn't count as online. If someone sends you a WhatsApp message and you receive a notification but don't open the app itself, it doesn't count. Only when you actually open the app is when it shows you as being online.

Personally, I agree with you that the simplest solution that would already resolve a ton of those issues is to simply only display your "online" status to those who you have added to your contact list (instead of to literally the entire world).

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#107

Post by m4rtink »

darkport wrote: post #104

I've always wanted to do something similar at scale. Generate all possible random mobile numbers 11^10, check if they have a WhatsApp profile pic and run it through AWS' rekognition celebrity model ( https://docs.aws.amazon.com/rekognition/latest/dg/celebritie... ). You could identify the personal numbers for a _lot_ of VIPs, politicians, etc.

"Amazon Rekognition can recognize thousands of celebrities in a wide range of categories, such as entertainment and media, sports, business, and politics. With Amazon Rekognition, you can recognize celebrities in images and in stored videos. You can also get additional information for recognized celebrities."

Wow, that's legal ? :P Not to mention moral...

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#108

Post by freeflight »

m4rtink wrote: post #107
darkport wrote: post #104

I've always wanted to do something similar at scale. Generate all possible random mobile numbers 11^10, check if they have a WhatsApp profile pic and run it through AWS' rekognition celebrity model ( https://docs.aws.amazon.com/rekognition/latest/dg/celebritie... ). You could identify the personal numbers for a _lot_ of VIPs, politicians, etc.

"Amazon Rekognition can recognize thousands of celebrities in a wide range of categories, such as entertainment and media, sports, business, and politics. With Amazon Rekognition, you can recognize celebrities in images and in stored videos. You can also get additional information for recognized celebrities." Wow, that's legal ? :P Not to mention moral...

I guess an argument could be made how celebrities are public figures which in some jurisdictions gives them a bit worse privacy protections.

Also interesting: The article "Celebrity recognition compared to face search" [0] does actually have a disclaimer:

> Celebrity recognition should not be used in a manner that could result in a negative impact on civil liberties.

Only to then follow up how face search allows for the very same thing with your own face collections, so it's apparently not just reserved to celebrities.

[0] https://docs.aws.amazon.com/rekognition/latest/dg/celebrity-...

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#109

Post by freeflight »

fighterpilot wrote: post #94
spurgu wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "logged in"? You're only shown as "Online" when you have the app open. When you close it it turns to "Last seen".

I meant I sometimes wish to take a break from both notifications as well as my counterpart seeing the message got pushed into my client and thinking I'm ignoring them. If there's unattended to messages I feel a social pressure to respond quickly. I want Whatsapp to be more like an email client which is far less intrusive into mental and emotional space. Now that I think more about it, I could do two things: (1) disab…

To disable the blue check you just don't need to open the app, blue check for sender only triggers when you view the message in the actual app, but not if you read it in the notification/on the lock screen.

As long as the app is not open you also won't be shown as online, that only happens when actively using the app.

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#110

Post by turtletontine »

Not to downplay this, but the authors "You can track any mobile phone !" claim seems comically overblown. Not everyone has What's App, some people who have it rarely use it, and only knowing when someone's online is a pretty weak form of "tracking".

That said, I agree it's not good that you can spam strangers phone numbers and see when they're online. I'll be turning off that feature on my phone.

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