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Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

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Re: Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

#101

Post by syshum »

RHSeeger wrote: post #70
dcolkitt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employee-status may come with certain benefits, but it also comes with many drawbacks and burdens for the employee. For me, and probably many on this board, the biggest risk is "works-for-hire". Under US law, contractors have strong legal protections of their own intellectual protection. Whereas it's much easier for a W-2 employer to claim IP made in personal time. I don't really care about healthcare of unemployment…

> Forcing freelancers into W-2 status is just another example of the government screwing people over "for their own good". It's the government screwing _some_ people over for the good of everyone else, where it's presumed that "good of everyone else" is worth more to society than what is lost by those that get screwed over by it. At least, that's generally the intent.

Ahh the old "Greater Good", the most evil phrase in the English Language

Anyone attempting to do anything for "the greater good" should be viewed with suspicion and disrespect as most at best what they are attempting to do no matter the intent will fail and harm more people than it will help

At worst is it just a shield to cover their immoral actions, or thirst for power

Every person that values freedom, individuality, and prosperity should reject any policy or law that is based on a "greater good" narrative

Re: Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

#102

Post by kristjansson »

mraza007 wrote: post #14

Aren’t data center employees crucial as they are making sure your services are running perfectly even in an event of emergency. Why not hire them and pay them better wages

They do? TFA says as many as half they techs are FTE.

The alternative is not that they hire everyone as FTE, its that they hire and fire FTE to meet their labor demand, and then we get lots of doom and gloom and stock price dips about Google firing techs in Iowa or wherever.

Re: Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

#103

Post by jsisto »

briffle wrote: post #6
mr_o47 wrote: post #2

Sad to see this practice. I wonder why can’t google hire them as regular data center employees and pay them better wages.

I have friends that have the same setup at their jobs at Intel in Portland. Its not just Google.

And Intel in Folsom California

Re: Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

#104

Post by newacct583 »

dcolkitt wrote: post #53
taurath wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right thing for the company to do would be to hire people as employees, but it appears that worker protections are too strong for them to want to financially. Universal healthcare/dental/paid leave would allow for companies who’s employees currently are the only receivers of these “benefits” to not require companies to hold onto people so long. Worker protections are supposed to be so that catastrophic job loss i…

Employee-status may come with certain benefits, but it also comes with many drawbacks and burdens for the employee. For me, and probably many on this board, the biggest risk is "works-for-hire". Under US law, contractors have strong legal protections of their own intellectual protection. Whereas it's much easier for a W-2 employer to claim IP made in personal time. I don't really care about healthcare of unemployment…

> Employee-status may come with certain benefits, but it also comes with many drawbacks and burdens for the employee.

Not to the employees in question. Clearly the frame and interview content of the linked article is that these employees WANT to be permanent employees. But they're not allowed to be because their employer wants the flexibility to terminate them at any time. The fact that the two year contract exists is just a side effect.

Yes, there are real people who want to do contract work. They exist, though it's relatively rare and clustered in careers (software is one) where short term work makes sense. But that's not who we're talking about here. These are datacenter maintenance folks, they want steady work.

And off topic, but:

> I don't really care about healthcare of unemployment insurance.

This is something only ever said by young people who have never been sick (or had a family member suffer from) with a career-threatening condition. Yes, in your 20's it sounds like self-insurance is totally doable. Wait until you have four dependents or until you need to arrange for a parents' surprise retirement.

Re: Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

#105

Post by advisedwang »

plank_time wrote: post #94

I’m getting tired of these low-value workers complaining they should be paid as well as high-value workers. They were hired with no skills, and were trained from the ground up. They are getting a livable wage but now they want more. If they want more, they need to elevate their worth and become high value employees or find a better job that values them better. They are contractors. Because of their particular life ex…

Read the article - they aren't complaining about pay, they are complaining about job security. They are doing work that is going to be needed for the foreseeable future but can only work 2 years before they have to leave (for a period).

Re: Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

#106

Post by KKKKkkkk1 »

jasode wrote: post #13

>Contractors love the good pay and engaging work in Google's data centers. They resent that Google and its staffing firm, Modis Engineering, make them quit every two years. >[...] But those two-year contracts are written in stone. Workers like Wait are not usually allowed to apply either to renew their contracts or to do the same job as a Google employee. If they want to keep working in the same job, they have to lea…

There's a very clear explanation in the article about the reason for this from an employment attorney. It's necessary so that Google can falsely classify these workers as non-employees.

Under existing IRS guidelines, a company can't arbitrarily determine which workers are full employees and which are contractors. The business has to be able to prove when a worker meets certain key legal definitions about contract work, and, if they fail, they would be required to treat the contractor as if they were an employee, according to Figari.

"One of those guidelines is whether there is a written contract or employment benefits. The other aspect is, is the relationship a continuing one, and is it a key aspect of the business," Figari said. Companies will try to work around this by saying: "If it's cut off at a specific timeline, we were able to get by without them for six months. They are not a key aspect of our business, and [the role] is not a continuing one," she explained.

Re: Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

#107

Post by miked85 »

jschwartzi wrote: post #92
yanderekko wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a lot less interesting than people want to pretend it is. A company's willingness to throw away money should be largely invariant to its overall financial health.

Except in this case "throw away money" is a euphemism for "paying workers enough that they don't need welfare to support their families."

How many Google contractors/employees are on welfare?

Re: Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

#108

Post by geodel »

matz1 wrote: post #80
cool_dude85 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if Google can afford to do it (they can) then it's perfectly practical. They just don't want to, and you're right that the reason is obvious.

I can easily afford to pay my mechanic twice the money. Of course just like google, I don't want to.

Exactly. When others do it, it is just an excuse. When I do it, it is necessity.

Re: Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

#109

Post by syshum »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #41
yanderekko wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because companies reasonably try to avoid throwing away money? I mean, I'm not sure exactly why companies higher CWs as opposed to just lower-paid FTEs. Could be a remedial stopgap to deal with issues in the "normal" hiring pipeline, I'd guess? But the answer to why they don't just throw extra money at people who are already willing to work for you is obvious.

Well, if Google can afford to do it (they can) then it's perfectly practical. They just don't want to, and you're right that the reason is obvious.

So when you go to find a Plumber, Auto Mechanic, Roofer, etc you look at the amount of money you can "afford" than pay exactly that?

so If a plumber says he can fix my sink for $150 but I cna "afford" to pay $500 I should pay $500?

Re: Forced unemployment and second-class status: Google's data center contractors

#110

Post by giantg2 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #69
geodel wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that would just compound the grief. Endless media articles on how certain employees are considered second class citizens at Google.

Doesn’t this whole thread make it pretty clear that they are?

I mean, this is the case at any company really. The highly valued people or people in the management structure are more highly valued and have more say. The very org structure alludes to a class system.
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