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The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

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Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#101
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stopped following anime for several years now. The trajectory of one punch man from it's humble doodle-like beginnings to mainstream speak volumes about the state of commercialization these days IMHO. The isekai genre is definitely overused at this point, just as slice of life got done to death before it. Lately, I've been having more luck w/ manhwa (Korean manga). If steampunk sci-fi with social commentary plot…

> The isekai genre is definitely overused at this point Yet somehow we can't get enough of it! I mean, I know I'm a sucker for isekai. Some of it is poorly animated with terrible stereotypes (for anime) and far too much fan service but it's not isekai that's cliche it's the story that's being told inside of it that could be. I'd argue that isekai is one of the best and truest forms of sci-fi: Instead of just "drama,…

The Isekai genre goes deep, very very deep. Anime adaptations only really cover the often good and/or mainstream series.

If you start digging into Isekai manga, there at least one order of magnitude more works to choose from. Then if you look into light novels, there is even more stuff, again with just a fraction getting manga adaptations.

But the real breath of Isekai are web novels - that's where most of the current hit novels started, on websites like "I'll become a novelist" (https://syosetu.com/) where people just type away their fantasies with minimal friction, one chapter at a time and often with lots of direct feedback from the community.

That can result in even more original/crazy ideas being explored, such as:

- What if you were transported to a fantasy world with your solar powered camping vehicle ? (Himekishi to Camping Car)

- What if you became your game character in a fantasy world that has a different gender (female) and is a total glass cannon ? (Alice Tale)

- Whats more fun than raiding dungeons ? Running them! (Lazy Dungeon Master)

- What if there is stable gateway between the other and the modern world and you can go back and forth ? (quite a few series actually, even some mainstream ones like Gate or Isekai Shokudo)

- Fantasy is nice but steampunk and heavy industry is even better! There are quite a few rather non-mainstream series that introduce robots and guns into an Isekai setting. Yet there are others that set out to industrialize the whole thing as including building stuff like railroads.

- What if magic was just a foreign language or alphabet the locals aren't good at but you are, as it's your native language ?

- What if you are the only one who can see the GUI in an Isekai world ? Nothing better than meeting a famous aristocrat with "class: vampire" blinking above his head telling you about mysterious kidnapping cases in the vicinity. Or "goblin shaman [invisible]" floating in the air of dark cave. (Skill Takers World Domination")

- What if due to some mistake no one person gets reincarnated as a son of poor aristocrat but 3 - a high school student, a salaryman and Nobunaga ?

- What if you actually got reincarnated to the buggy mess of an MMO you helped to develop (Death March) ?

- What if a modern Aegis cruiser or even the full Japanese archipelago (including some disputed islands, no less ;-) ) gets transported to an Isekai ?

Really the possibilities are endless. There is definitely a lot of repetition and series that frankly are not any good (especially between web novels, thanks to the same zero entry barriers that enable so much creativity in the first place) but there are many gems to be found if you search a bit. :)

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#102
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stopped following anime for several years now. The trajectory of one punch man from it's humble doodle-like beginnings to mainstream speak volumes about the state of commercialization these days IMHO. The isekai genre is definitely overused at this point, just as slice of life got done to death before it. Lately, I've been having more luck w/ manhwa (Korean manga). If steampunk sci-fi with social commentary plot…

> The isekai genre is definitely overused at this point Yet somehow we can't get enough of it! I mean, I know I'm a sucker for isekai. Some of it is poorly animated with terrible stereotypes (for anime) and far too much fan service but it's not isekai that's cliche it's the story that's being told inside of it that could be. I'd argue that isekai is one of the best and truest forms of sci-fi: Instead of just "drama,…

Yeah, I know what you mean. I've read far too many isekai manga/manhwa than I should have (not super into anime).

Shield Hero was good but FFF-Class Trashero probably tops the lot for me. Really good storytelling and incredible character development.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#103

Serial Experiments Lain is everything wonderful about anime. It is violent, dark, scary. In summary: ADULT. Anime tells stories in a visual format that for years and years you simply could not get anywhere else. Adult genre fiction was not well represented in American media. Even today, adult American cartoons are almost entirely "sitcom" format. They don't want to ever end, and they do not want to tell a story, they…

A month or so ago I finally watched the Neon Genesis Evangelion series after hearing about it for more than 20 years. After slogging through a few episodes of predictable awkard-teenagers-pilot-giant-robots-to-save-the-world it finally reveals itself as a stunning exploration into the minds of troubled youth who are, effectively, subjected to a barrage of traumatic crises. It's a deep, rich world with complex charact…

A lot of great recommendations have already been made, but I wanted to throw out Kuuchuu Buranko (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Welcome_to_Irabu%27s...) as a personal favorite that doesn't get named as much as I think it deserves in this sort of conversation. Much closer to Tatami than to Lain.

While I'm at it: speaking of Tatami, you should also check out Yuasa's Kaiba: it's a lot more abstract than Tatami but ultimately ticks a lot of the same boxes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descending_Stories:_Showa_Ge... is arguably the best character-focused drama of the last few years.

Satoshi Kon has also already been mentioned, but I'd specifically call out Paranoia Agent as it's often less prominent than his feature films, yet (imo) is the most incisive of his stuff.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#104
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European comics and novels did that before Japan ;). And with far more mature and adult themes.

I'm talking about specifically animation, though. There are plenty of examples of excellent novels and comic books from all over the world. However, they represent a completely different tier of production cost. Comics and novels are cheap. Animation takes a team of sometimes hundreds of animators, sound designers, art directors, etc.

>Comics and novels are cheap

Manga too, but in Japan it's much better praised than anime.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a nitpick, but Neon Genesis Evangelion came out in 1995 and Lain in 1998. They do tend to be representative of their period, i.e. 90’s tv anime productions. The early 2000’s where characterized primarily by the Big 3 Shonen Jump titles (Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece).

> The early 2000’s where characterized primarily by the Big 3 Shonen Jump titles (Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece). This category only exists in the minds of Westerners who were pirating shonen manga at the time. It's not the most popular anime in Japan at any point. It's also funny Bleach made this list since it was frankly terribly written and not as popular as the other two. The author had no control over his story…

>Westerners

Avoid placing Americans as "westerners", because we the Europeans already finished Dragon Ball by 1994 for sure.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#107

Serial Experiments Lain is everything wonderful about anime. It is violent, dark, scary. In summary: ADULT. Anime tells stories in a visual format that for years and years you simply could not get anywhere else. Adult genre fiction was not well represented in American media. Even today, adult American cartoons are almost entirely "sitcom" format. They don't want to ever end, and they do not want to tell a story, they…

A month or so ago I finally watched the Neon Genesis Evangelion series after hearing about it for more than 20 years. After slogging through a few episodes of predictable awkard-teenagers-pilot-giant-robots-to-save-the-world it finally reveals itself as a stunning exploration into the minds of troubled youth who are, effectively, subjected to a barrage of traumatic crises. It's a deep, rich world with complex charact…

Also Mitsuo Iso (one of the lead animator) off-time animation technique is quite rare.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#108

Serial Experiments Lain is everything wonderful about anime. It is violent, dark, scary. In summary: ADULT. Anime tells stories in a visual format that for years and years you simply could not get anywhere else. Adult genre fiction was not well represented in American media. Even today, adult American cartoons are almost entirely "sitcom" format. They don't want to ever end, and they do not want to tell a story, they…

I see no mention of Gunnm (battle angel alita) OAV was nicely done even though short. The manga has lot to offer somehow.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#109
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The early 2000’s where characterized primarily by the Big 3 Shonen Jump titles (Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece). This category only exists in the minds of Westerners who were pirating shonen manga at the time. It's not the most popular anime in Japan at any point. It's also funny Bleach made this list since it was frankly terribly written and not as popular as the other two. The author had no control over his story…

>Westerners Avoid placing Americans as "westerners", because we the Europeans already finished Dragon Ball by 1994 for sure.

But what were you pirating in 2003?

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A month or so ago I finally watched the Neon Genesis Evangelion series after hearing about it for more than 20 years. After slogging through a few episodes of predictable awkard-teenagers-pilot-giant-robots-to-save-the-world it finally reveals itself as a stunning exploration into the minds of troubled youth who are, effectively, subjected to a barrage of traumatic crises. It's a deep, rich world with complex charact…

A lot of great recommendations have already been made, but I wanted to throw out Kuuchuu Buranko ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Welcome_to_Irabu%27s... ) as a personal favorite that doesn't get named as much as I think it deserves in this sort of conversation. Much closer to Tatami than to Lain . While I'm at it: speaking of Tatami , you should also check out Yuasa's Kaiba : it's a lot more abstract than T…

>Satoshi Kon has also already been mentioned, but I'd specifically call out Paranoia Agent as it's often less prominent than his feature films, yet (imo) is the most incisive of his stuff.

ignoring the good story and psychological elements, Paranoia Agent is worth watching for the sheer style and drawing methods.

Satoshi Kon was always stylish, but Paranoia Agent is one of the best examples.

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