China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet • Hacker News Board

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#101

Post by selfhoster11 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 3:57 PM UTC

api wrote: post #31

xbar wrote: post #18

New IP is an attempt to redesign IP into a top-down governance model. It is not a new "internet protocol." It is a "new internet" protocol where central authority is part of the design. I am morally opposed.

The CCP can force Chinese to use this, but why would anyone else use it? I can’t see the USA or EU changing architectures unless our governments mandate it, and I see no moves in that direction. We are barely able to get people to implement IPv6 after 20 years of kicking people in the ass to do it, so it will not happen organically.

US's DMCA laws and Disney-promoted extended copyright terms infected the rest of the world despite not technically being mandatory. I can see more than a slight parallel here whereever a country is within China's sphere of influence.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#102

Post by selfhoster11 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

causality0 wrote: post #54

gaudat wrote: post #29

I wonder is it possible to isolate a whole country from the rest of the Internet? There are so many services in China that are almost exclusive to people with a Chinese phone number and a WeChat / Alipay account. That sealing the rest of the Internet does not affect Chinese residents using those services.

What I wonder is if that would be a good thing, at least from a selfish standpoint. Wechat is gaining traction in Western markets.

I don't get why you're being downvoted. WeChat has turned into an OS thanks to its mini-programs. It's also integrated with mass surveillance and censorship technology as a built-in.

The Web is bad as it is. Replacing it with a proprietary extension of the Chinese government (or any government, for that matter) through slow adoption would be a tragedy.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#103

Post by selfhoster11 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

qshaman wrote: post #49

In China you do need an ID/passport to get a phone number and/or a internet contract with one of the 3 ISPs. How is this new?

Presumably the protocol would also embed this data into the very connections you're establishing to other servers. IPv4 and IPv6 have ways to correlate data, but putting it directly into the connection is on a whole new level when censorship is implemented.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#104

Post by bingbong70 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

linksnapzz wrote: post #97

bingbong70 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dictators aside, the Chinese are considered fairer trading partners than most (possibly all) western countries. ~1000 years of African history makes this point very clear.

Certain lessons need to be re-learned the hard way.

Is there any infrastructure value added by western trade that rivals Chinese investments?

My understanding is there isn't and western countries have had a lot longer to prove the opposite. The relationship is mostly extractive (not in a benevolent sense) where western countries are concerned.

What's the Chinese-in-Africa equivalent of the CIA/MI6 wanting shiny rocks and orchestrating a genocide to secure them?

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#105

Post by tibbydudeza » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

RealStickman_ wrote: post #20

dicomdan wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are proposing New IP system that requires people to register with their real ID in order to use the internet anywhere, not just in China. That’s pretty dystopian in my book.

You have to verify your ID or drivers license to get a SIM in Switzerland

We have similar laws supposedly to stop people from using burner phones and engaging in crime.

Re: China’s Dystopian “New IP” Plan for a New Internet

#106

Post by tibbydudeza » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 8:12 PM UTC

okareaman wrote: post #68

I am genuinely curious about CCP plans if they do become a dominant influence in the world. They are attempting to reprogram Tibetans and Uighurs to erase their culture and make them Chinese. Is that the plan for all other cultures? Is the goal to make us all Chinese speaking Chinese?

Unlike the Soviet Union they could care less about other countries except for Taiwan , protecting the dominance of the CCP and being able to trade without interference.