Live data from Hacker News

Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

cbc.ca

101–110 of 132 posts

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#101
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not BS. It is packaged as changes to IR35 and sold as "making sure that workers who work as employees pay the same tax as employees." More info: https://norightsemployee.uk/faq Some MPs woke up quite too late: https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252499096/Loan-Charge-Gr... The articles refer to those workers as contractors and mainly focus on IT market, but these rules can be applied to any workers.

Thank you for clarifying. But how would IR35 apply in this case - she was an employee anyway, not a contractor and did not have her own limited company.

There is a plausible approach https://norightsemployee.uk/step-by-step but it doesn't address the limited company issue.

It is possible to work inside IR35 without having own company, but I have not seen many materials about that, so I'll leave it.

Company formation is very quick and can be automated and there are already companies who automate accounting related to this.

The structure would have to look like this: - deemed employee gets a job offer, he or she accepts

- company creates limited company on worker's behalf and creates an agreement with a fee payer - it must contain clauses limiting substitution and few other to ensure it falls in scope of IR35.

- Fee payer is an intermediary between employer and worker that pays tax on behalf of the worker and sends his or hers salary to their company account. (these companies already exist)

- all accounting for worker's company can be automated (there will be no Corporation Tax to pay etc.)

This may seem complex, but I can imagine it gets streamlined quickly when companies see the benefits.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#102
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, this has slipped me by entirely, have you got an article about it that I can read?

This website has a good summary https://norightsemployee.uk/faq There is not much information about it, because that gone through as a change to IR35, so people slept on it, but in reality companies can only hire on "in-scope IR35" contract and bypass employment law altogether.

From the site:

> Is this site trying to sell me something?

> No! We're just here to promote the use of NREs because we believe this is our chance to increase the productivity and fortunes of Great Britain, especially post-Brexit.

So, disingenuous as hell - it's totally a protest site but claims to be pro.

Very large pinch of salt needed here.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#103
post #80
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where Android massively outclasses iOS: it separates all company data in an isolated profile, has a separate location switch for work apps, has a separate notification switch for work apps and doesn't allow access to your private data. You can easily disable the whole setup yourself (and company doesn't control it) which easily makes notifications go away whenever.

Does that work with the ‘remote locking/erase’ requirement OP stated?

yes. E.g. googles remote management stuff can wipe all data associated to the work profile.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#104
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This website has a good summary https://norightsemployee.uk/faq There is not much information about it, because that gone through as a change to IR35, so people slept on it, but in reality companies can only hire on "in-scope IR35" contract and bypass employment law altogether.

From the site: > Is this site trying to sell me something? > No! We're just here to promote the use of NREs because we believe this is our chance to increase the productivity and fortunes of Great Britain, especially post-Brexit. So, disingenuous as hell - it's totally a protest site but claims to be pro. Very large pinch of salt needed here.

Yes it is a protest site. I know a few people who already work this way though.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#105
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for clarifying. But how would IR35 apply in this case - she was an employee anyway, not a contractor and did not have her own limited company.

There is a plausible approach https://norightsemployee.uk/step-by-step but it doesn't address the limited company issue. It is possible to work inside IR35 without having own company, but I have not seen many materials about that, so I'll leave it. Company formation is very quick and can be automated and there are already companies who automate accounting related to this. The structure would have to look like this: -…

The site you reference reeks of disingenuity, so I shall regard your arguments with a great degree of skepticism.

Which is annoying, as I am very uncomfortable with the march towards zero hour contracts and the like - if you are genuine and not just an IT contractor who is pissed off that they can't do the usual IR35 tax dodges, then you do yourself a disservice citing such a ropey website :-(

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#106

I would like to see the employer reaction if someone has a Librem phone or any non Android/iOS mobile. Yet it's +800$ for this short satisfaction.

Couldn't the Pine phone do the same for $150?

https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-beta-edition-linux-smar...

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#107
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a plausible approach https://norightsemployee.uk/step-by-step but it doesn't address the limited company issue. It is possible to work inside IR35 without having own company, but I have not seen many materials about that, so I'll leave it. Company formation is very quick and can be automated and there are already companies who automate accounting related to this. The structure would have to look like this: -…

The site you reference reeks of disingenuity, so I shall regard your arguments with a great degree of skepticism. Which is annoying, as I am very uncomfortable with the march towards zero hour contracts and the like - if you are genuine and not just an IT contractor who is pissed off that they can't do the usual IR35 tax dodges, then you do yourself a disservice citing such a ropey website :-(

I linked to this website as I thought despite this "let's help corporations exploit workers" theme, the information it has is quite concise and true.

You can also check this report http://www.loanchargeappg.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/H...

This is not only affecting IT contractors but anyone can be hired with such contract.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#108
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the site: > Is this site trying to sell me something? > No! We're just here to promote the use of NREs because we believe this is our chance to increase the productivity and fortunes of Great Britain, especially post-Brexit. So, disingenuous as hell - it's totally a protest site but claims to be pro. Very large pinch of salt needed here.

Yes it is a protest site. I know a few people who already work this way though.

And there we go ... some indication that it is satrire would help because it just looks dodgy otherwise.

And now I don't trust you one bit, even though I may well be on the same side as you!

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#109
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is a protest site. I know a few people who already work this way though.

And there we go ... some indication that it is satrire would help because it just looks dodgy otherwise. And now I don't trust you one bit, even though I may well be on the same side as you!

Unfortunately I couldn't find any other source that would have the issue presented in a digestible format.

There is another one http://www.loanchargeappg.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/H...

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#110
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The site you reference reeks of disingenuity, so I shall regard your arguments with a great degree of skepticism. Which is annoying, as I am very uncomfortable with the march towards zero hour contracts and the like - if you are genuine and not just an IT contractor who is pissed off that they can't do the usual IR35 tax dodges, then you do yourself a disservice citing such a ropey website :-(

I linked to this website as I thought despite this "let's help corporations exploit workers" theme, the information it has is quite concise and true. You can also check this report http://www.loanchargeappg.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/H... This is not only affecting IT contractors but anyone can be hired with such contract.

> The articles refer to those workers as contractors and mainly focus on IT market, but these rules can be applied to any workers.

But you say things like this from a reply above, and they simply do not apply to "any workers" (ie. employees) - only those that are specifically taken on as contractors. I'm not going to wake up tomorrow to find that it applies to me as I'm an employee, not a contractor.

I know this is your special hobby horse, but it has no bearing on this story.

Post reply on HN