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Arabian Nights

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Re: Arabian Nights

#101

Post by CobrastanJorji »

somethingtoday wrote: post #54
Iv wrote: post #32

Always fun to remind people that Aladdin is actually Chinese in the original stories. But then, let's be fair, their depiction of China sounds like it was just a placeholder for "far away land"

Even to this day, the word China in Arabic (pronounced "seen") means far away. So if your friend lives across town and you are inconvenienced, in Arabic you would say "why do you live in China?".

I love that in Arabic, China is a metaphor for "far away," and in Chinese, China is basically "the central place." I am hoping to find out that the Pashto or Hindu for China means "medium far away."

Re: Arabian Nights

#102

Post by hassancf »

goto11 wrote: post #59

Fun fact about Arabian Nights: Some of the stories are only known from the French translation by Galland. By his own account he wrote them down (in French) based on narration from a Syrian Maronite storyteller who visited him in Paris. The well known story of Aladdin only exists in French - there is no known original in Arabic. Borges suggested Galland might simply have made up the story of Aladdin on his own, others…

Sorry for being blunt but: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (of original texts in Arabic about Alaaddin that predate Galland etc).

A lot of the original stories may be verbal oral and not necessarily written, another lot may be lost (burn libraries etc) and this all happened from 400 to 1000 years ago, so not exactly yesterday.

Re: Arabian Nights

#103

Post by jarenmf »

goto11 wrote: post #59

Fun fact about Arabian Nights: Some of the stories are only known from the French translation by Galland. By his own account he wrote them down (in French) based on narration from a Syrian Maronite storyteller who visited him in Paris. The well known story of Aladdin only exists in French - there is no known original in Arabic. Borges suggested Galland might simply have made up the story of Aladdin on his own, others…

Indeed, Hanna Diyab is a very interesting person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanna_Diyab

Re: Arabian Nights

#104

Post by gwern »

devindotcom wrote: post #98
fmajid wrote: post #36

Jorge Luis Borges wrote an excellent comparison of translations of the Arabian Nights, notably those of Galland, Burton, Lane and Mardrus. His conclusion was the Lane one was most faithful to the original, despite being prudishly bowdlerized, that Mardrus emphasized the sensual aspects to titillate his readers and Burton on the other hand over-emphasized the violence. I've read the Galland, Mardrus and Burton but not…

I did not know this exists. Can't wait to look it up and read it, thanks.

https://www.gwern.net/docs/borges/1936-borges-thetranslators...

Re: Arabian Nights

#105

Post by defen »

goto11 wrote: post #59

Fun fact about Arabian Nights: Some of the stories are only known from the French translation by Galland. By his own account he wrote them down (in French) based on narration from a Syrian Maronite storyteller who visited him in Paris. The well known story of Aladdin only exists in French - there is no known original in Arabic. Borges suggested Galland might simply have made up the story of Aladdin on his own, others…

> By his own account he wrote them down (in French) based on narration from a Syrian Maronite storyteller who visited him in Paris

That sounds a lot like the origin story of Don Quixote... (within the text, it was allegedly told to Cervantes by Cide Hamete Benengeli)

Re: Arabian Nights

#106

Post by goto11 »

defen wrote: post #105
goto11 wrote: post #59

Fun fact about Arabian Nights: Some of the stories are only known from the French translation by Galland. By his own account he wrote them down (in French) based on narration from a Syrian Maronite storyteller who visited him in Paris. The well known story of Aladdin only exists in French - there is no known original in Arabic. Borges suggested Galland might simply have made up the story of Aladdin on his own, others…

> By his own account he wrote them down (in French) based on narration from a Syrian Maronite storyteller who visited him in Paris That sounds a lot like the origin story of Don Quixote... (within the text, it was allegedly told to Cervantes by Cide Hamete Benengeli)

The storyteller did exist though. He even wrote a memoir! But he didn't write down his own stories. He narrated them for Galland, presumably in French, and Galland wrote them down... a few days later... from memory.

Re: Arabian Nights

#107

Post by GeoAtreides »

gjm11 wrote: post #87
vixen99 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing how the 'almost unreadable' Burton's Thousand Nights continues to sell to this day, even on Kindle. As far as I can gather, there is plenty of sexual imagery in the original manuscript undoubtedly emphasized by Burton. Suggestions of really gross mis-translation or invention by Burton, seem to be thin on the ground.

The trouble with Burton isn't inaccuracy so much as unreadability , or at least clumsiness , because he translated into an idiosyncratic variety of English never used by anyone else before or since. Here's an example from the introduction to Dawood's translation, which I happen to have handy: "But she rejoined by saying, 'Allah upon you both that ye come down forthright, and if you come not, I will rouse upon you my…

English is my second language and I find his translation (and the fragment you quoted) clear, interesting and poetic. Reminds of King James Bible translation, which I also greatly enjoy.

Re: Arabian Nights

#108

Post by selimthegrim »

devindotcom wrote: post #99
riffraff wrote: post #12

> Many of the well-known modern stories, like that of Aladdin, have the more prurient elements removed or are stories that were added much later. I wonder about the "prurient" bits? Anyone perused this version and can share what this is about? I am quite curious to see if the version I read in my own language also has the same censoring.

If you read the story "The Porter and the Three Ladies of Baghdad" (I think... this is from memory) the women (the escalating beauty of whom as the porter meets each is incredibly phrased by Burton) eventually are fooling around with the porter and they are pointing to each other's crotches and joking about different names: "thy cleft, thy slit, thy coynte, thy clitoris" and the women suggest "the basil of the bridge…

Wait until you read some Abu Nuwas

Re: Arabian Nights

#109

Post by axiom92 »

Iv wrote: post #32

Always fun to remind people that Aladdin is actually Chinese in the original stories. But then, let's be fair, their depiction of China sounds like it was just a placeholder for "far away land"

On a related note, some languages become placeholder for "gibberish." For example, English speakers often say "it sounds Greek."

https://twitter.com/TommSciortino/status/1357376440170258434

Re: Arabian Nights

#110

Post by masterphilo »

goto11 wrote: post #59

Fun fact about Arabian Nights: Some of the stories are only known from the French translation by Galland. By his own account he wrote them down (in French) based on narration from a Syrian Maronite storyteller who visited him in Paris. The well known story of Aladdin only exists in French - there is no known original in Arabic. Borges suggested Galland might simply have made up the story of Aladdin on his own, others…

> Folklorists have pointed out that the set of stories recorded from the storyteller have a number of story tropes more characteristic of European rather than Middle Eastern folk tales.

Interesting, could you give us an example of these characteristics?

Islamic and European societies during the period of these stories were different in unique ways, and for that reason I'm not exactly sure how those characteristics were more similar to the one rather than the other.

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