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The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

bbc.com

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Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#101

Post by gher-shyu3i »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #44
insickness wrote: post #2

"From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither…

"the tiniest creatures God in his wisdom put upon this earth" The writing is nice but flawed. Since War of the Worlds, we have advanced tremendously and no longer need intelligent design or creation myths to explain microorganisms. Reproducible, testable science demonstrates that in the primordial oceans, self-replicating molecules which were slightly better at self-replicating produced globules of matter capable of…

Science does not and will not be able to explain the origin of life. The statement still holds. It's very arrogant of us to assume otherwise.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#102

Post by cdrini »

dcolkitt wrote: post #42
guscost wrote: post #30

All human coronavirus diseases, including COVID-19, are colds. Always have been. This one from 1890 might have been caused by OC43: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1889–1890_pandemic

This is a pretty interesting hypothesis. Maybe there’s nothing really special about SARS type coronaviruses besides their novelty. Is it possible that all coronaviruses, including the ones that cause a common cold, have a similar morbidity profile to COVID? Very minor infection in the young or those with previous exposure, extremely deadly in the old and naive. Except we all catch a bunch of colds in childhood, so no…

No it's not possible. The thing that makes Sars-Cov-2 unique is its binding site in the human body. Sars-Cov-2 binds to the ACE2 receptor, which is found in just about every organ in your body. Unlike many other viruses which target receptors more localized to e.g. your throat/airway, Sars-Cov-2 can infect cells in your nasal cavity, stomach, lungs, heart, olfactory neurons, you name it. And every cell it infects will be destroyed; either by bursting to release the viral replicas, or by an immune system response.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#103

Post by frenchy »

guscost wrote: post #62
andruby wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are colds. What constitutes a "cold"? Is there some kind of definition for it?

Exactly! Colds are poorly understood, and can be very dangerous. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4181476/

I'm not sure this will really add anything to the discussion, but I think the common usage of the term "cold" is for an endemic, mostly-harmless disease, not just any viral respiratory illness.

Also, my quick read of that paper was that it was mostly concerned with immunocompromised individuals, and with secondary pneumonia infections. Secondary pneumonia is certainly a problem for old people, or otherwise vulnerable people with colds. Antibiotics can be pretty helpful but they have limitations.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#104

Post by mrkramer »

dragonwriter wrote: post #84
mrkramer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry I'm not going to harm anyone just like Spanish flu ended in 2 years this pandemic will also end soon. I discussed months ago here on HN that looking legally causing someone's death without intent is not criminal because you had no intent of killing. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea "A person commits an offense if he: intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual." I hav…

> I discussed months ago here on HN that looking legally causing someone's death without intent is not criminal because you had no intent of killing Intentional killing is usually first degree murder, or voluntary manslaughter, depending on premeditation. Second (in some schemes third) degree murder (depraved indifference) and involuntary manslaughter, and negligent homicide all are crimes, and do not require intent…

I understand what involuntary manslaughter is but does it apply to spreading a virus? I'm not a lawyer but if it does I will act accordingly and try not to commit involuntary manslaughter hypothetically speaking.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#105

Post by mrkramer »

nkohari wrote: post #88
mrkramer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry I'm not going to harm anyone just like Spanish flu ended in 2 years this pandemic will also end soon. I discussed months ago here on HN that looking legally causing someone's death without intent is not criminal because you had no intent of killing. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea "A person commits an offense if he: intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual." I hav…

Legality and ethics are two distinct things.

I know but legal system is based on ethics. E.g. not stealing or not killing etc.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#106

Post by WJW »

mrkramer wrote: post #80
SirSavary wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You better hope that the judge handling your case doesn't stumble upon this comment thread. Your lack of Mens Rea isn't going to fly if you're caught meta-discussing the whole thing. Also, manslaughter?

And btw I understand what manslaughter is but again I'm not a lawyer. Refer me to any case or cases where someone is guilty of spreading a virus without intent(Involuntary).

First google result: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit.... It's not difficult to find more examples.

If you know or could reasonably suspect you have a lethal virus and still go out without taking proper precautions then that is absolutely something people have sued over many many times.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#107

Post by Izkata »

JonathonW wrote: post #99
shadowofneptune wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand what you mean here.

Grandparent comment misspelled atheism; parent comment is being obnoxious about it.

I read it as aversion to the "New" part of "New Atheism", a term I don't think I've heard of before.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#108

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

timr wrote: post #50
learnstats2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't explain the complete suppression of influenza Influenza isn’t infective enough to spread during the summer months anyway (i.e. it is completely suppressed), unlike rhinoviruses, so it’s easily most plausible that a few additional hygiene measures have suppressed influenza further.

The data I linked to covers the winter -- the same "hygiene measures" were in place in the winter, and clearly affecting both viruses differently. If you're saying that rhinoviruses are more contagious than the flu because they're less seasonal...there's really no evidence to support that. They're more-or-less the same [1]. It's possible that influenza is more sensitive to heat, light, etc. My point is, the story isn…

This covers the bases. There isn't a huge mystery here, although there are some unknowns that need more research.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03519-3

R0 rates are just an indicative estimates. They don't account for different modes or vectors of transmission.

So it's not a given that mask wearing, social distancing, temperature, UV, humidity, and hand washing would necessarily all have identical effects on Covid, flu, and the various virus families that cause colds.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#109

Post by franl »

cdrini wrote: post #102
dcolkitt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty interesting hypothesis. Maybe there’s nothing really special about SARS type coronaviruses besides their novelty. Is it possible that all coronaviruses, including the ones that cause a common cold, have a similar morbidity profile to COVID? Very minor infection in the young or those with previous exposure, extremely deadly in the old and naive. Except we all catch a bunch of colds in childhood, so no…

No it's not possible. The thing that makes Sars-Cov-2 unique is its binding site in the human body. Sars-Cov-2 binds to the ACE2 receptor, which is found in just about every organ in your body. Unlike many other viruses which target receptors more localized to e.g. your throat/airway, Sars-Cov-2 can infect cells in your nasal cavity, stomach, lungs, heart, olfactory neurons, you name it. And every cell it infects wil…

I'm not sure I've seen the difference described so clearly and succinctly! How would you describe the seasonal flu in this same regard to receptors?

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#110

Post by Izkata »

guscost wrote: post #62
andruby wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are colds. What constitutes a "cold"? Is there some kind of definition for it?

Exactly! Colds are poorly understood, and can be very dangerous. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4181476/

That link appears to be about the flu, not the common cold. They're different, but something I've learned over the past year is that most people think of the flu as another name for the common cold.
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