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Early-Retirement Update

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101–110 of 443 posts

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#101
post #13

To me the emphasis on the FIRE community should be on the FI part of the equation. For many people in many countries, there is no concept of "retirement". It seems so silly to me that people would go and say "I'll work really hard and do all this stuff for 40 years so I can sit around and do nothing for another 30 years". What's the point? It's unsustainable. It's like doing a crash diet - it may work for a minute, b…

What surprises me is the lack of creativity that comes from people planning to work into their 60s. To be sure, in this year of a pandemic, not working but also having a lot of other options outlawed or discouraged made for a less than ideal lifestyle. (Source: I was unemployed for six months.) Even so, the freedom to... saw/split/stack firewood when the weather was perfect, build a movie nook for my wife, go on bike…

> Even so, the freedom to... saw/split/stack firewood when the weather was perfect, build a movie nook for my wife, go on bike rides on a Tuesday afternoon in a warm breeze, take our dog on a long, leisurely walk at a local park, read a book in the shade out on the deck...

I had a job where I could do this. On any given week I worked normal(ish) hours, but I had pretty close to full control over when and where I worked, with significant autonomy on what and how. I spent most of my afternoons outside unless I really felt like working on my project. At the same time, being at a company gave me resources, teammates and scope I would have struggled to recreate working on my own open-source projects. I had just come off a one-year break and I ended up enjoying working more than I did not working. It's a real shame that we can't have more jobs like this; it requires giving people a level of trust and autonomy most organizations can't stomach.

If I could arrange a role like that into the indefinite future, I'd have absolutely no questions about working well into my 60s, and not at all thanks to a "lack of creativity".

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#102

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

I've had friends with trust funds, who just seem to dither around in life. "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE"

It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yourself to solving?

As much criticism as Elon Musk gets (he's certainly not perfect), the path he took is the only thing that makes sense to me in that position. He didn't take his wealth and begin doing angel investing in new CRUD app startups, he wanted to solve real problems humanity faces.

Not everybody has that amount of money or skill, but it's surprising to me how many people's alternative to having a day job they're forced to do is just complete leisure time 100% of the time or picking up arbitrary hobbies.

In this guy's post, like with writing, it sounds like he wasn't actually passionate about it. There are plenty of places to post serialized fiction as you write in online and get feedback (Royal Road, Substack) but it sounded like the measuring stick he was judging himself was becoming a very popular/famous author, not actually writing great stories. It seems just like a different version of the treadmill he was talking about with other people.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#103
post #52

It's nice to see someone's honest thoughts. Though I can't help but find the person a little judgemental of their prior partner, or people who don't mind working. I also feel like they must have had a strange group of friends, 30k is the US median income, but it seems they only had friends making way more and also somehow being money obsessed. I do like the conclusion though, we're social animals, and the issue with…

Yep, that's the point of FI. You can pick what you want to do with your life, whether that's working or not. Those who say "I don't see the point of being FI, I want to work my entire life" is like saying "I don't see the point of a BATNA in a negotiation".

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#104
I skimmed through maybe 50% of it, but a really great read. I'll try to re-read in-depth some more later.

Some really good nuggets of wisdom in there, even if you are not planning on retiring early. I'm kind of in the same place as the author, although I don't think I would necessarily really retire. I'd just take lower-paying jobs that were more fulfilling so as to keep me interacting with others and giving me some sort of daily challenge.

My takeaway from the post is you really can't predict where your life will go in the future. It's good to recognize that and be okay with it. A lot of us, myself included, are caught up in planning and doing the right things, but even with careful planning, you really don't have total control over what happens to you. Being resilient is an important part of moving forward.

The inability to relate to those working is understandable. I wonder if the author had been doing something more fulfilling to fill his time, he would have related more to his friends? Maybe not on the "making money and buying things" side, but the feeling of progressing in something. If I were to retire early, I feel like I would need something to keep me occupied, some sort of "life's work" to keep me going. Otherwise, it just feels like living out the rest of your days, filling it with movies, video games, and books.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#106
post #85
post #46

I really struggled with the author's tone. It dripped of condescension towards those who live a "normal" lifestyle. I enjoy working. I find purpose and meaning it. I do not let it dominate my life, but without it I would feel incomplete. I run my own business now, and that is very satisfying - but even when I was a corporate consultant I found a lot of enjoyment from spending time with my coworkers, solving problems,…

" ...she had acquired, somehow, New Life Dreams, which had to do with Conspicuous Consumption and Keeping Up and being Visibly Awesome... " I was thinking the same thing: geeze, isn't there anything between virtue signalling early retirement and conspicuous consumption?

He mulls over and comes to the conclusion later in his post that he probably could have done more to save his relationship. Just based off of the sentence you quoted and other things he said, I wouldn't be surprised if he was very dismissive of his ex-wifes struggle to find meaning, or desire to go back to work. Cheating is terrible, but having a partner who doesn't try to see your struggles can be crippling.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#107

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

I think most people would agree with you. Often called "build the life you want, then save for it"[0]. It's not as sexy, though, probably why the extreme outliers are more written about (or vocal).

[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/58j8...

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#108
post #102

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

I've had friends with trust funds, who just seem to dither around in life. "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE" It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yours…

I don't know. I'd love to have a basic level of income and then be able to dither around with random jobs. I'd love to be a bartender for 6 months, work in a bookstore for 6 months, become a carpenter for a year or two. I'd probably feel differently if I actually had a trust fund since my upbringing would be different but it does feel stifling that in order to have a financially rewarding career one has to stay on a relatively narrow path.

And I say this as someone who has made a major career change during their life.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#109
Sounds like OP's spouse was the tipping point. If they stayed on the same page, I wonder if things would've gone differently (ignoring the medical issues which aren't trivial, of course).

The OP seems content to live a life without work. For him, by far the main reason to work was for income. If you don't want to work, then why keep doing so when you no longer need income to fuel your lifestyle? Obviously people are different here, and many (esp. on HN) derive other values from work.

The wrench comes when you're surrounded by people who aren't on the same page. Like OP pointed out, you become more disconnected as you both can't relate to the other's chosen lifestyle. OP sees their peers' lifestyles as consumption-focused. And I'd bet those friends couldn't relate to OP either.

OP's spouse probably felt caught in the middle between freedom and social inclusion. If you can't relate to your peers, early retirement could feel more like stagnation than freedom. Social inclusion is a hard thing to give up.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#110
I was with the story until I clicked on the link to the discussion with the partner and there was the sentence about how she "learned French last year." That description really tells me something about the person who wrote this.

First of all, you can't "learn a language" in a year. It takes multiple years, and it's really a journey not a destination. I guarantee you his partner doesn't speak French at, say, a C1 or C2 level. Impossible.

Second, I feel like it exposes something about the writer here. Too much emphasis on state, too little on the transitions between state.

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