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Open source projects should run office hours

simonwillison.net

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Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#101

Post by matkoniecz »

watwut wrote: post #94
matkoniecz wrote: post #90

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

I agree with you, but the article is not about that.

I referred specifically to the title in my comment.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#103

Post by fxtentacle »

detaro wrote: post #92
fxtentacle wrote: post #89

Many projects that I use already have IRC with permanent log, so you can just go in there and estimate the times when the regulars hang out from the logs. And then you join at that time, too. It kind of is like office hours via chat.

I think having the explicit concept still has some value: a) "you can just go and ask" is a surprisingly large cultural barrier for many people (as are other conventions around developer channels), b) an explicitly set time will have higher success rate than guessing based on logs and c) it's also something the devs can structure and plan around. I.e. sure, I'll answer questions when I see them and have time, but ste…

In my experience, you want a slightly inconvenient barrier, or else you'll be swamped with beginner's questions only partially related to your project.

For computer vision topics, StackOverflow is recently full of people who did a "deep learning expert in 4 hours" course and now need help with things that are covered in every textbook on the topic, like "what is disparity?".

Not everyone strives to be a teacher. Some of us also just want to work on cool stuff with like-minded people.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#104

Post by obiwanpallav1 »

So, the future users/contributors can personally talk to the owner/maintainer of the OSS projects. This is good for both the parties. The owner/maintainer can get a huge set of idea/directions to take forward along with instilling some confidence in their users. This idea seems great to me.

Also, this looks vaugely similar to the Pre Sales/Sales call as well.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#105

Post by dylan604 »

kyawzazaw wrote: post #82
ianlevesque wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you want a referral into one of those giant companies someday? Can't hurt to know a guy...

you could just write a post on teamblind.com if you are that level or just make a tweet

you're putting a lot of weight on someone having the right followers or someone casually reading some rando.com website. comparing that roll of the dice big bang level of random vs having direct contact with someone that uses code you created and can vouch for you seems skewed in the wrong direction to me.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#106

Post by detaro »

fxtentacle wrote: post #103
detaro wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think having the explicit concept still has some value: a) "you can just go and ask" is a surprisingly large cultural barrier for many people (as are other conventions around developer channels), b) an explicitly set time will have higher success rate than guessing based on logs and c) it's also something the devs can structure and plan around. I.e. sure, I'll answer questions when I see them and have time, but ste…

In my experience, you want a slightly inconvenient barrier, or else you'll be swamped with beginner's questions only partially related to your project. For computer vision topics, StackOverflow is recently full of people who did a "deep learning expert in 4 hours" course and now need help with things that are covered in every textbook on the topic, like "what is disparity?". Not everyone strives to be a teacher. Some…

Sure, and that's a valid choice (although if IRC is the best filter, or just a convenient one, is arguable), but that's even more an argument that having an IRC channel is not quite the same as "having office hours by chat", especially if you don't want to have office hours. Maybe I just misinterpreted your initial comment, but to me it read like "we don't need office hours, our IRC channel does the same thing".

What works best entirely depends on what your goals, personal preferences and audience are.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#107

Post by lifeisstillgood »

I have to admit I am convinced.

It hits the big issues of talking to your users and probably acting as a good filter for finding contributors.

I am slowly reawakening some projects from deep freeze, and when / if they garner any users I will try this ... which of course is the downside of the idea. You need users :-)

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#108

Post by tosh »

For Jam (open source Clubhouse) we do a weekly “Jam Jam” which basically is an audio space that people can join (no video, no calendar slot negotiation, connecting with others who use the project).

We link to it in our readme

https://gitlab.com/jam-systems/jam

(can be improved)

I wonder if there is a better name for the concept that works for international audiences and people who don’t know the concept from academia.

For larger projects I can also imagine other formats like “show and tell” or “Q & A” where people submit questions (maybe even with donations or paid to create an income stream for the people working on the project)

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#109

Post by matkoniecz »

nxpnsv wrote: post #99
matkoniecz wrote: post #90

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

I don't think this is about obligations. I feel the developer had a hugely positive experience in inviting interested strangers for 20 minute chats and wanted to spread the positivity. Seems like a nice person, with a nice project, and clearly some extra time available.

I referred specifically to the title in my comment.

It is part of things personally irritating to me, and something what is biggest threat to small open source projects that I like.

People are mistaken in thinking that having an open source project implies any obligation beyond lack of malice.

And people tired by dealing with that are one of top reason why open source projects disappear or are never created.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#110

Post by [deleted] »

matkoniecz wrote: post #90

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

[deleted]
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