Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

docs.google.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 121 posts

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#101

Post by vkou »

MangoCoffee wrote: post #93
velikhan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That part of the story checks out too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_lithography https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn-Jeng_Lin Myself, am amused how the translators did not consult English sources and also how the writers of the wikipedia article probably didn’t know about the analogy to immersion microscope objectives. This industry is curiously insular.

a lot people on hacker news believed if you throw enough money into something like China is doing with semi industry that somehow you can get your fab into a leading fab. you can't just build something with off the shelves equipment. if that's the case then China big fund in 2014 (before trade war, China already pouring money into semi industry) already bearing fruits but SMIC have to poach TSMC engineers to get them…

Everything you are saying is true, but chip fab independence is a national-security priority for China, and national-security priorities aren't constrained by next-quarter-earnings market pressures. The strategy also does not just consist of buying off-the-shelf equipment, but also recruiting experts and specialists and designers.

It may not overtake TSMC next year, or in five years, but I'd be surprised if a Chinese firm does not reach parity in ten years.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#102

Post by prewett »

tehjoker wrote: post #68
nomay wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coz Chinese people have been conditioned by a level censorship and media control unseen elsewhere, the resulting susceptibility to yummy and palatble disinformation is quite deep and prevalent, you may have read news about strong reaction about strange things from the west, you guessed it right there's alway legions of "self-media" behind it, it’s unfettered and state sanctioned algorithm-driven circlejerk machine, a…

Buddy, if you watch American news media with any level of knowledge about material reality you will be blown away by the level of deception, sensationalism, and servility to power. We all need to chill out when talking about foreign countries.

I hear people saying these kinds of things all the time, but I've never gotten any concrete evidence except "they choose what things to report and leave out things we think are relevant". Ok, that's everyone, you only have so much time/space. I might agree with you for Fox TV, and news in general has had an element of sensationalism from the beginning (who wants to read/watch boring stuff?), but aside from that, what are some examples of deception and servility to power? Where would one go to determine if your accusations are true? And no right-wing / conspiracy sites, please.

Frankly, it seems to me that the only reason your comment is not be libel is simply because you didn't name any specific organization.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#103

Post by totalZero »

MangoCoffee wrote: post #93
velikhan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That part of the story checks out too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_lithography https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn-Jeng_Lin Myself, am amused how the translators did not consult English sources and also how the writers of the wikipedia article probably didn’t know about the analogy to immersion microscope objectives. This industry is curiously insular.

a lot people on hacker news believed if you throw enough money into something like China is doing with semi industry that somehow you can get your fab into a leading fab. you can't just build something with off the shelves equipment. if that's the case then China big fund in 2014 (before trade war, China already pouring money into semi industry) already bearing fruits but SMIC have to poach TSMC engineers to get them…

The difference being that the US already has companies with experts and institutional knowledge. The fact that China lacks those things is a function of the pace at which it is trying to grow its semiconductor sector. The fact that China is able to collimate spending far better than the US is a function of how bad the US government is at sending money where it needs to go rather than to the Department of Defense.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#104

Post by content_sesh »

rasz wrote: post #61

Taiwan population is around 24 million. It might be cheaper for US to offer to relocate whole country to the continental North America. Give everyone citizenship and free land, move TSMC to Texas. Make Taiwan island a huge military base.

If this isn't some type of thought experiment to prove a point, then this is some off-the-charts chauvinism. Why do you believe they would actually want to relocate here?

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#105

Post by rossdavidh »

content_sesh wrote: post #104
rasz wrote: post #61

Taiwan population is around 24 million. It might be cheaper for US to offer to relocate whole country to the continental North America. Give everyone citizenship and free land, move TSMC to Texas. Make Taiwan island a huge military base.

If this isn't some type of thought experiment to prove a point, then this is some off-the-charts chauvinism. Why do you believe they would actually want to relocate here?

It is, ,I'm sure, a thought experiment, but presumably the reason would be to get out of China's military reach. But I don't get the impression it was intended as a serious suggestion.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#106

Post by Texasian »

bee_rider wrote: post #78
chenhungh wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, thank you. But no. No way.

Texas is a ridiculous idea, but how about Connecticut? Near the coast, comfortable 8-24C temperature range, not too far from the US education and business hubs.

The entire premise is ridiculous.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#107

Post by sergeykish »

wyuenho wrote: post #9
pas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you be a bit more specific in what agreement the Obama admin did not honor? Which parts and how?

He's implying Euromaiden in 2014 as a EU and US instigated event to erode Ukraine's political independence, thus, justifying Russia's invasion of the Crimea. We should know by now whenever region moves away from an authoritarian power's orbit is regarded by these powers' as some kind of foreign influence and subversive operation. They think it's impossible that the people themselves actually don't like authoritarian…

Russia puppet was the reason of Euromaidan.

Putins rating raised to 86% after Crimea annexation. Ukraine joined West in propaganda. It's just a fuel for informational autocracy.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#108

Post by MangoCoffee »

vkou wrote: post #101
MangoCoffee wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot people on hacker news believed if you throw enough money into something like China is doing with semi industry that somehow you can get your fab into a leading fab. you can't just build something with off the shelves equipment. if that's the case then China big fund in 2014 (before trade war, China already pouring money into semi industry) already bearing fruits but SMIC have to poach TSMC engineers to get them…

Everything you are saying is true, but chip fab independence is a national-security priority for China, and national-security priorities aren't constrained by next-quarter-earnings market pressures. The strategy also does not just consist of buying off-the-shelf equipment, but also recruiting experts and specialists and designers. It may not overtake TSMC next year, or in five years, but I'd be surprised if a Chinese…

China already throw in the big fund back in 2014. i believed they started the big fund II. we'll see how that goes.

>recruiting experts and specialists and designers

they already did that by poaching engineers from TSMC and else where.

>I'd be surprised if a Chinese firm does not reach parity in ten years

that's if the leading foundries just stand still. GlobalFoundries drop out of 7nm. i'll be surprised if the Chinese fabs can catch up in just 10 years.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#109

Post by mytailorisrich »

pierrebai wrote: post #92
mytailorisrich wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have. So where does it?

I think it refers to this: Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". Obviously, Russia did not use nuclear weapon... but maybe the fact that Russia has nuclear weapon and invaded Crimea means Ukraine is under threat of nuclear weapons.…

That's not a promise to send any help or to help militarily.

It just says that if Ukraine is nuked (quite an extreme scenario to start with) they'll ask the Security Council (where Russia has a veto) to do something about it. You can argue that this constitutes a promise to 'help', but frankly sending a "get well soon" card would be more helpful.

Hence my first comment: The US and the West do not want to be forced to intervene and thus they never made any promise, binding or otherwise, to.

The UN did vote a resolution on Ukraine and Crimea in 2014.

As I also wrote, it is Russia that breached the memorandum but not respecting Ukraine's borders as they were but, tough.

Re: TSMC at the head of history’s tide: two high walls and one sharp knife

#110

Post by onepointsixC »

nickff wrote: post #3
ggm wrote: post #2

Interesting read. A little "florid" perhaps, some turns of phrase probably don't survive translation. I don't envy anyone who works the midnight shift in a 24/7 r&d boilerhouse. Liver eater indeed. Given US strategic concerns in VLSI we are probably going to see another slightly different chapter in this story:TSMC being induced to bring core IPR inside domestic US production, presumably for cash injection and guaran…

Taiwan would be foolish to believe such American promises. The USA made similar promises to Ukraine in the Budapest memorandum (under Clinton), and subsequently did not fulfill its obligations (under Obama).

The difference is that the Ukrainian invasion had far smaller implications to US interests than an invasion of Taiwan would have.
Post reply on HN