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PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

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Re: PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

#101

Post by trident5000 »

177tcca wrote: post #89
trident5000 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shaming electricity usage is just ass backwards. Future humans will take more electricity without question especially as AI ramps up (massive rendering). The key is to transform all energy to cater to that need. Neither one of us will determine what people use as a hedge, the market will.

It's directly connected to lots of power usage today being from coal.

So is all that crap you buy from China that you dont need which is manufactured using dirty power. BTC is mostly renewables and will transition completely as it becomes cheaper.

Re: PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

#102

Post by paulryanrogers »

Geee wrote: post #97
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency isn’t going away, but it’s dishonest to pretend that it’s not without major problems such as the energy consumption issues. The popular narrative has also become almost indistinguishable from a pump scheme, where we’re all supposed to buy and home (never sell) until we’re all rich. If cryptocurrency becomes commonplace, it likely won’t look anything like our current crypto infrastructure. The problem i…

The energy consumption issue is silly. It's like saying that Google won't be successful because they consume so much energy. It's not a major issue, it's just a silly talking point for those who oppose or don't understand cryptocurrencies. Also, there is no such popular narrative. Your argument is like saying, "so we're supposed to buy stocks until we're all rich, that's a scam". Everyone makes their own investment d…

Google enhances the lives of billions by making information more accessible. So far cryptocurrency facilitates crime and gambling.

Re: PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

#103

Post by akudha »

G3rn0ti wrote: post #60
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency isn’t going away, but it’s dishonest to pretend that it’s not without major problems such as the energy consumption issues. The popular narrative has also become almost indistinguishable from a pump scheme, where we’re all supposed to buy and home (never sell) until we’re all rich. If cryptocurrency becomes commonplace, it likely won’t look anything like our current crypto infrastructure. The problem i…

> major problems such as the energy consumption issues You don’t seem to know much about crypto currencies to name energy usage as a real problem of crypto. While Bitcoin will keep it’s “proof of work” approach to mining in the foreseeable future, there are now quite a few alternative crypto currencies in circulation employing “proof of stake” that do not suffer from large computer power usage e.g. Cardano, Solana or…

More than energy issues, what is sad is that Bitcoin is kinda becoming what it was started against - huge amounts of bitcoin is in the hands of whales. Most ordinary people have zero interest in practical usage of btc, their only interest is greed ("when moon?"). Companies are pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into BTC, hoping to make huge profits. Just like an ordinary person can't afford to buy shares/houses, he can't afford to buy BTC either.

In other words, concentration of wealth in the hands of a tiny group of people.

Crypto is here to stay, it will take a few years, but they will be useful in some form or another. Hopefully it is useful for everyone, not just the 1%

Re: PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

#104

Post by G3rn0ti »

zucker42 wrote: post #67
G3rn0ti wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major problems such as the energy consumption issues You don’t seem to know much about crypto currencies to name energy usage as a real problem of crypto. While Bitcoin will keep it’s “proof of work” approach to mining in the foreseeable future, there are now quite a few alternative crypto currencies in circulation employing “proof of stake” that do not suffer from large computer power usage e.g. Cardano, Solana or…

If you think that proof of stake will take over, do you think that Bitcoin will crash? When will Bitcoin stop having the insane environmental impact it has now? If proof of stake is the future, why is the market cap of BTC so high compared to other cryptocurrencies?

Well, Bitcoin was the first of its kind, it’s time and battle tested and technically it might still be the most reliable of all cryptos. Part of the reason for that is “Bitcoin script” not being Turing complete unlike Ethereum’s virtual machine and less prone to software bugs.

People, especially newbies trust it much more than other blockchains. That’s why everybody buys Bitcoin, currently.

I believe Bitcoin’s going to take on an important role in a value storage once it’s market value stabilizes. Essentially, it will become digital Gold. As the gold price didn’t “crash” to zero when it lost its utility as a currency, I believe we will never see a complete crash of the Bitcoin value. It will serve a niche application and, hence, keep having value. But it’s continued growth of its value will flatten over time in the future, I am sure. So I wouldn’t worry too much about its energy usage.

Re: PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

#105

Post by blacksmith_tb »

G3rn0ti wrote: post #60
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency isn’t going away, but it’s dishonest to pretend that it’s not without major problems such as the energy consumption issues. The popular narrative has also become almost indistinguishable from a pump scheme, where we’re all supposed to buy and home (never sell) until we’re all rich. If cryptocurrency becomes commonplace, it likely won’t look anything like our current crypto infrastructure. The problem i…

> major problems such as the energy consumption issues You don’t seem to know much about crypto currencies to name energy usage as a real problem of crypto. While Bitcoin will keep it’s “proof of work” approach to mining in the foreseeable future, there are now quite a few alternative crypto currencies in circulation employing “proof of stake” that do not suffer from large computer power usage e.g. Cardano, Solana or…

I don't see anything above like a statement that Bitcoin will "destroy the planet". But the claim that its comparatively large energy footprint contributes to that destruction seems perfectly reasonable - the common comparison is that Bitcoin currently "uses more electricity than Argentina"[1]. Not surprisingly lots of mining is colocated with hydropower or geothermal power generation, but mainly because that's cheaper - I could imagine the power demands for mining reaching a level where they'd underwrite solar or wind farms (apparently we aren't there yet...), or just become economically unfeasible altogether.

1: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952

Re: PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

#106

Post by shawnz »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #50
ceilingcorner wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of things have environmental problems. I don’t understand why Bitcoin mining gets singled out for it. If the benefits of using it outweigh the downsides, then I don’t see the issue.

The other wastes of electricity are also problems we should address. The difference is that while regulations and tech advancements are improving power efficiency everywhere else, proof of work systems incentive ever-increasing wastes of electricity. What other system is designed to get increasingly less efficient over time, while paying people to be inefficient, as a core principle of how it operates? Cryptocurrency…

Proof-of-work systems don't use ever-increasing amounts of electricity. For example the electricity consumption of Bitcoin is proportional to its price. It won't increase unless the market price of Bitcoin increases, or electricity gets cheaper.

More power consumption also doesn't mean the efficiency is reduced. You would have to quantify the value that users are getting from it to judge the efficiency. If the value goes up with increased power consumption, then the efficiency hasn't changed.

Re: PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

#107

Post by rawtxapp »

tomlagier wrote: post #100
hanniabu wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t understand why Bitcoin mining gets singled out Because then he'd need to name an actual different reason to hate on bitcoin that hasn't been debunked

Here's mine: it doesn't seem socially useful if everyone holds a small amount of bitcoin and does nothing with it, particularly if all of those holdings are centralized on a small number of exchanges. I have no idea whether that is the true use for most BTC, but (mod exchanges vs private wallets) it's been the case for every single person I've talked to that owns some. I just don't get it - we're all holding pieces o…

> but it feels like the majority of the stuff is just... sitting there...

It gives you the ability to actually save your money for a future use. If you need liquidity, you can borrow against it to spend money in other endavors.

Nobody wants to bring their coins to their grave, but whatever you spend it on needs to bring more value than this just sitting there, which means you would expect a lot of unprofitable or very low profit investments to go away (ex: empty housing used as real estate investment in Vancouver).

Re: PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

#108

Post by gruez »

akudha wrote: post #103
G3rn0ti wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major problems such as the energy consumption issues You don’t seem to know much about crypto currencies to name energy usage as a real problem of crypto. While Bitcoin will keep it’s “proof of work” approach to mining in the foreseeable future, there are now quite a few alternative crypto currencies in circulation employing “proof of stake” that do not suffer from large computer power usage e.g. Cardano, Solana or…

More than energy issues, what is sad is that Bitcoin is kinda becoming what it was started against - huge amounts of bitcoin is in the hands of whales. Most ordinary people have zero interest in practical usage of btc, their only interest is greed ("when moon?"). Companies are pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into BTC, hoping to make huge profits. Just like an ordinary person can't afford to buy shares/houses,…

>More than energy issues, what is sad is that Bitcoin is kinda becoming what it was started against - huge amounts of bitcoin is in the hands of whales. Most

Was there ever an expectation that cryptocurrencies were going to solve the concentration of wealth and/or inequality? Bitcoin's whitepaper only talked about being able to transact without a trusted third party (banks) and the famous genesis block message of "Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" seems to be more against government interventionism (ie. "too big to fail") than inequality.

Re: PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

#109

Post by reedjosh »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #102
Geee wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The energy consumption issue is silly. It's like saying that Google won't be successful because they consume so much energy. It's not a major issue, it's just a silly talking point for those who oppose or don't understand cryptocurrencies. Also, there is no such popular narrative. Your argument is like saying, "so we're supposed to buy stocks until we're all rich, that's a scam". Everyone makes their own investment d…

Google enhances the lives of billions by making information more accessible. So far cryptocurrency facilitates crime and gambling.

Making who's information accessible to whom? I'm pretty sure a lot of information on me is made available to parties I'd prefer privacy from.

Also one could say cash dollars promote crime. Most terrorism is cash funded.

Re: PayPal Bids $500M to Acquire Crypto Startup Curv

#110

Post by mindcandy »

zucker42 wrote: post #67
G3rn0ti wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major problems such as the energy consumption issues You don’t seem to know much about crypto currencies to name energy usage as a real problem of crypto. While Bitcoin will keep it’s “proof of work” approach to mining in the foreseeable future, there are now quite a few alternative crypto currencies in circulation employing “proof of stake” that do not suffer from large computer power usage e.g. Cardano, Solana or…

If you think that proof of stake will take over, do you think that Bitcoin will crash? When will Bitcoin stop having the insane environmental impact it has now? If proof of stake is the future, why is the market cap of BTC so high compared to other cryptocurrencies?

Proof of Stake requires that what you are staking has value. The future I'm looking forward to is POS taking over by leveraging the existing Proof of Work already invested in Bitcoin and Ethereum. So, Bitcoin will slowly go away by being burned to transmute it into the foundational value of new POS coins. During that process, the total supply of unburned coins will decrease. Eventually the market cap will decrease. Less POW mining will be necessary. And, eventually it will drop off to effectively zero.
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