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NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

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Re: NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

#101
post #73
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really asking why we can't power your fridge with plutonium?

Not sure about you, but I was promised fusion-powered DeLoreans by now.

You don’t have the Mr. Fusion upgrade? Run that sucker on trash. Had it since 2015.

Re: NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

#102
post #96
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The radiation emitted by plutonium 238, which is what's found inside RTGs, is easily shielded by essentially any solid material. The real reason you don't want an RTG powering your fridge is that it costs on the order of one million dollars per watt.

Economies of scale would surely change that though?

To some extent, but plutonium is relatively rare. Because it's radioactive an it decays, there isn't that much in nature. You can make some as a byproduct of uranium fission reactors, but again, I believe collecting and refining it takes a lot of energy... You could always cover your roof in solar panels. They could potentially last 40 years, and the cost is anywhere between 10K to 20K installed. It's relatively affordable amortized over a 30-year mortgage, and considering it produces usable power.

Re: NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

#103
post #96
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The radiation emitted by plutonium 238, which is what's found inside RTGs, is easily shielded by essentially any solid material. The real reason you don't want an RTG powering your fridge is that it costs on the order of one million dollars per watt.

Economies of scale would surely change that though?

Plutonium was generated in reactors in the US but those were all shut down by the late 80s. It's not an easy thing to just mine or make more of there were whole reactors basically dedicated to just what we have left today. In fact we're kind of running out of the stuff for scientific missions, NASA only has enough for one RTG left according to reports.

https://fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/pu50yc.html

https://mjosefweber.medium.com/nasa-needs-plutonium-ea3bbaad...

Re: NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

#104
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AKA "Not In My Back Yard." So the question stands and extends to include this: "why not?"

People are probably going to answer “safety”. But it’s also hideously expensive. Plutonium is, apparently, one of the safer ways to build these things, because it is easy to shield, and the power density is good. But plutonium, as it’s not naturally occurring, is stratospherically expensive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_ge...

The first nuclear bombs cost billions of dollars each.

I wish I could say that’s a good thing. But no, after the first of them, nuclear weapons seem to have justified their own existence, no matter the cost.

I would rather see remaining weapons material repurposed as deep-space power sources. If that were to solve problems.

Anyhow, Perseverance makes me happy.

Re: NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

#105
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AKA "Not In My Back Yard." So the question stands and extends to include this: "why not?"

People are probably going to answer “safety”. But it’s also hideously expensive. Plutonium is, apparently, one of the safer ways to build these things, because it is easy to shield, and the power density is good. But plutonium, as it’s not naturally occurring, is stratospherically expensive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_ge...

Additionally, the decay product of Pu-238 is U-234. Though a relatively 'safe' alpha emitter, it's half-life is ~200,000 years.

Note: With alpha emitters, it's 'safe' if it's outside your body, your skin can absorb it. But once you eat or inhale it, you get the full blast right into the quickest dividing cells in your body.

Re: NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

#106
post #96
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The radiation emitted by plutonium 238, which is what's found inside RTGs, is easily shielded by essentially any solid material. The real reason you don't want an RTG powering your fridge is that it costs on the order of one million dollars per watt.

Economies of scale would surely change that though?

Not really, it's all artificially produced and would require generation of lots of power (it comes from reactors) to produce it at scale. The only times we used to do it at any reasonable scale was for nuclear weapons. It's also restricted by treaty because of this.

Re: NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

#107
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of those effective waste disposal systems in the West, particularly for recycling, consist of paying Asian and African companies to take away the waste, so it can then be dumped in their countries/oceans or get "recycled" in places like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agbogbloshie

No, that is not a waste disposal system, it's how tech companies and other companies that sell gadgets fool their eco customers into thinking they are "recycling" something that cannot in principle be safely recycled. It is yet another example of going through a kabuki ritual rather than effectively dealing with the problem.

Agreed, but weren't you claiming earlier that poor countries are responsible for 100% of the plastic waste problem?

Re: NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea how much storage it has? I would think it'd have to be TBs to store all these images, logs, and other data for years while making sure they have enough memory so that they're not limited and if the rover stays there for longer than intended.

Why would it need to continue to store things after successful receipt on Earth?

Very off-site backup.

Re: NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

#109
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's powering Voyager is a plutonium pile. Pretty sure you don't want that in your fridge. 10 billion miles from me? Sure, knock yourself out. 10 feet from me? No way.

The radiation emitted by plutonium 238, which is what's found inside RTGs, is easily shielded by essentially any solid material. The real reason you don't want an RTG powering your fridge is that it costs on the order of one million dollars per watt.

> easily shielded by essentially any solid material

If that shield fails for any reason, including tampering, you're looking at the radiological contamination and likely deaths of everyone nearby at the very least.

Re: NASA's Perseverance rover sends stunning images

#110

Does anyone know what type of data compression is being used to transmit these images? There's been huge progress since the last rover.

They use the same kind of compression as the last mission. JP2, I believe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_2000 I'm not sure that data compression has progressed that much since Curiosity in 2012 or Insight in 2018. There have been some formats that have improved compression at the expense of large amounts of memory or processing power, but neither of those are abundant on a rad-hardened processor. Neither is elec…

I can't find references to JPEG 2000 on this report: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-020-00765-9

Are they being re-encoded into regular JPG files when being shown online?

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