If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#101

Post by NearAP » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

hctaw wrote: post #88

ogre_codes wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So here's the weird thing. > No, Apple did not disable my account. I believe you, but I also trust the original poster by reputation. So what is the difference?

The original poster was paying for iCloud storage with their apple card, which is an Apple service.

But he said the iCloud subscription was not due or past due. which means Apple did not try to charge his card for the iCloud service and then locked his account because they couldn't

The iCloud subscription was not past due. [1]

1. https://twitter.com/dcurtis/status/1366485756546539520

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#102

Post by kitsunesoba » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:11 PM UTC

meetups323 wrote: post #19

kitsunesoba wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not even mandatory unless the app offers other auth providers like Google and Facebook. If your app is based around old fashioned email and password sign-in you don’t need to include Sign In with Apple at all.

But ugh please do. From the end user's perspective I 100% do not want to navigate your app's account creation process bouncing back and forth between my email client and your website and your app (if the redirect works, which it probably wont), and I 100% do not want to give your app my actual email address. Just implement apple's Auth flow. It's not that hard.

And the reason the redirect is broken, more often than not, is because there's analytics sitting somewhere in the stack that's either not working properly because it's inherently brittle or because it's getting blocked by my adblocker.

I understand the need for analytics in some situations but registration, signin, recovery, etc are critical paths and every layer of indirection is playing with fire.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#103

Post by wbronitsky » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

dcurtis wrote: post #83

I didn't expect that tweet to get so much attention. I plan to write more about what exactly happened when my accounts are re-activated. But to clear a couple of things up: 1. I've since learned that the reason this happened could be due to an unusual confluence of events including Apple Card, autopay, and the online Apple Store. 2. The disabling of iCloud, App Store, and Apple ID accounts is actually an Apple Card p…

This poster continues to fling accusations at Apple and has yet to provide any proof of any of these suppositions whatsoever. I’m not sure why the commenters are so eager to believe a comment from a random Twitter account posted to HN. Confirmation bias is strong, I guess.

This is a heavy accusation and I think the burden is heavily on the accuser to provide clear evidence that lack of payment for anything somehow locks you out of your Apple account. These comments and posts also seem to be conflating different accounts, like Apple ID, iCloud, and the Apple Card Account.

I’m in no way trying to defend Apple, this just seems like an incredibly user hostile policy, and also one that doesn’t exactly follow sound business logic.

If this is true, can you point to this policy? Can you share the “unusual confluence of events”?

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#104

Post by zepto » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

dcurtis wrote: post #83

I didn't expect that tweet to get so much attention. I plan to write more about what exactly happened when my accounts are re-activated. But to clear a couple of things up: 1. I've since learned that the reason this happened could be due to an unusual confluence of events including Apple Card, autopay, and the online Apple Store. 2. The disabling of iCloud, App Store, and Apple ID accounts is actually an Apple Card p…

> The disabling of iCloud, App Store, and Apple ID accounts is actually an Apple Card policy for overdue accounts

Do you have any more information on this?

It sounds alarming when stated without further context, because it makes it sounds like a slightly overdue payment could cause an instant shutdown of ones account.

You originally seemed to be saying this is what happened, but now you are saying it’s not that simple.

I would be very surprised if my Apple account was locked out after 15 days of non payment of my card.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it was locked out (for example) after 100 days, especially if I hadn’t communicated with them.

Another reason for it to be locked out might be fraud detection, in which case I might actively want that, even thought it occasionally causes inconvenience.

One is indeed absurd and very salient to all Apple users, the other two would be unsurprising and frankly of no real concern. At this point we don’t know where on the spectrum the policy actually lies.

So without more context, #2 seems like a potentially very serious claim that could later turn out not to be so bad.

This is a common way damaging misinformation starts to spread.

I’m not for a second suggesting this is your intent, but I am pointing out that this is a likely effect, dependent on what the context actually turns out to be.

Edit: also worth noting that the tweet, and the HN headline are worded in an unequivocal way. It seems like as written, they may simply be false based on what you have now said.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#105

Post by IgorPartola » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #59

IgorPartola wrote: post #44

How come I am seeing surprising behavior from various Apple products multiple times a week at this point? Is it a new thing or is it just that they are huge and everyone is paying attention to them?

Weird, isn’t it. I mean Facebook is openly leading a push to discredit Apple. That doesn’t mean Facebook is somehow behind these posts, but their attempt could be working and causing people to report things more.

These posts do have a very specific feel to them, in that it's about how a perfectly rational engineering decision leads to bad UX. Upgrades that lock down the system further are probably good for most people, but not for developers. Missed payment leads to account lockdown is how an engineer would think to set things up, but not someone who's advocating for the user's experience. All the stuff with their new chips.

You could be right that this is someone sniping at their issues and maybe playing the market at the same time. Even if it is a larger evil competitor, these do seem like legitimate problems.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#106

Post by Bud » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

dcurtis wrote: post #47

nemothekid wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I don't think Apple Card has anything to do with it - I think his iCloud subscription was past due and that was that disabled his account - and then he found himself in a Catch 22 where he couldn't update/pay his Apple Card because he was locked out of iCloud. I'd imagine the same would have happened if he let his Visa card lapse.

Nope -- iCloud was not past due. It is an Apple Card policy.

It's not an Apple Card policy. At all. And you didn't post any convincing evidence of that.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#107

Post by ogre_codes » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

RandallBrown wrote: post #68

vecinu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but how is this dangerous? You don't have your credit cards on autopay? I regularly verify what transactions show up across my cards and you have 30 days to dispute anything. 10+ years and I never had an issue.

I don't actually auto pay any of my credit cards. I keep my checking account balance intentionally low and often run into times where paying off my cards would overdraft me. I don't think it's all that crazy of a thing to do, I just don't do it.

Every card which I've owned has allowed an option to autopay the minimum payment. This way you don't have to deal with accidentally missing a payment which can be quite costly.

That said, the real solution here is to not spend more than you can pay off. Every time you carry over your balance, it's a big win for the credit companies. If you get to the end of the pay period and your card balance is greater than your checking balance, then you lose.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#108

Post by amwelles » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

spiritplumber wrote: post #86

I don't have a US credit score because I never had a credit card in my life and always bought everything with money I knew I had (including my little home). That never fails to completely throw financial institutions for a loop; they can't conceptualize it. Ironically it means that if I was to apply for a credit card it would be very difficult to get it.

Depends on the card you apply for. I didn’t have a credit score until my mid 20s because I avoided them like the plague and bought only with money I had. Now I still do the latter, but I get rewards for using a credit card for purchases. My very first credit card had a very small limit ($250-500, I think), and I only used it for groceries.

Not to say everybody needs a credit card/score, but they do have advantages if you’re responsible with them. :)

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#109

Post by Bud » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

This tweet and claim don't really pass the laugh test, given that Apple has gone out of its way to help Apple Card holders who needed to skip payments for months in a row during covid.

There's simply no way that Apple is doing this; there is another explanation for this single user having this experience and I'm sure that will come out. This isn't found anywhere in Apple's terms of service.

I'll give 10-1 odds on a $100 bet that this isn't happening. Any takers?

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#110

Post by coliveira » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

vecinu wrote: post #58

caymanjim wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, little embarrassed to admit this, but: I plumb forgot to set up autopay on my Apple Card when I first got it. Why is that embarassing? Why on earth would you set up auto-pay? That's just asking for a headache if anything is every compromised, or if a vendor fraudulently or accidentally overcharges you. Reversing charges from your bank is a headache, and rogue charges can quickly cascade into a series of overdra…

Sorry but how is this dangerous? You don't have your credit cards on autopay? I regularly verify what transactions show up across my cards and you have 30 days to dispute anything. 10+ years and I never had an issue.

I don't autopay credit cards. I only do this for accounts that have fixed value and require little overseeing, e.g., car payments. Any of my credit cards are payed only when I review the amount and make the decision.