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Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

unixsheikh.com

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Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#101

Post by jamiesonbecker »

nine_k wrote: post #81
jamiesonbecker wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then.. why does it exist? More importantly, why is it enabled by default? Does systemd want to be an init system? A logging system? a dnsmasq replacement?

Systemd is a replacement for Unix. Folks at Red Hat noticed that the Linux userland architecture is not convenient for what they would like to build. So they are building systems which replace the traditional mechanisms: first DBus, then systemd, which is an umbrella of many services: init + service monitoring + containers, logging, interactive login, some networking, etc. I suppose that in 10 years a linux kernel +…

> Systemd is a replacement for Unix... I suppose that in 10 years a linux kernel + systemd could be a complete system, with little need for other userland.

'Doing many things, none of them well' is actually the opposite of UNIX.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#103

Post by dTal »

dralley wrote: post #96
jamiesonbecker wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then.. why does it exist? More importantly, why is it enabled by default? Does systemd want to be an init system? A logging system? a dnsmasq replacement?

There is a "project" named systemd and an "init system" named systemd, in much the same way that there's the GNU project and GNU-$everything. Nobody says things like "what is GNU? Is it a kernel, a compiler, a libc, a build system, a set of userspace tools?". Likewise, the systemd project has many utilities under its umbrella, and most of them are completely optional.

Hm. GNU exists to unify software under a single philosophical umbrella - the thing that all GNU software has in common is a fanatical attitude to software freedom.

What does all systemd software have in common? What's the unifying principle there?

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#104

Post by dralley »

hyakosm wrote: post #99
thomascgalvin wrote: post #8

> Proprietary operating systems like Microsoft Windows 10, Apple MacOS, and Google Android have become famous for their ill conduct... I find it mildly ironic that MacOS was based on BSD.

MacOS is not based on BSD, it's an old legend. NeXTStep was designed to be "compatible" with 4.3BSD (the diagram on Wikipedia is wrong because of this confusion). Edit : source about compatibility on the last page : http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Docs/Developer/NeXT_D...

Many Mac OSX userspace utilities were forked from FreeBSD. It's true that the OS as a whole is not really a FreeBSD derivative, but there definitely is some shared code.

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#105

Post by nine_k »

jamiesonbecker wrote: post #101
nine_k wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systemd is a replacement for Unix. Folks at Red Hat noticed that the Linux userland architecture is not convenient for what they would like to build. So they are building systems which replace the traditional mechanisms: first DBus, then systemd, which is an umbrella of many services: init + service monitoring + containers, logging, interactive login, some networking, etc. I suppose that in 10 years a linux kernel +…

> Systemd is a replacement for Unix... I suppose that in 10 years a linux kernel + systemd could be a complete system, with little need for other userland. 'Doing many things, none of them well' is actually the opposite of UNIX. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy

Sometimes you want a different balance — say, in embedded systems. If you think about busybox, it does something similar, only doing a better job at looking like the traditional userland.

There is nothing bad about it. What I find bad is forcing everyone to jump on the same bandwagon, no matter which bandwagon. If I wanted choices made for me, I'd buy a Mac.

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#106

Post by [deleted] »

dralley wrote: post #96
jamiesonbecker wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then.. why does it exist? More importantly, why is it enabled by default? Does systemd want to be an init system? A logging system? a dnsmasq replacement?

There is a "project" named systemd and an "init system" named systemd, in much the same way that there's the GNU project and GNU-$everything. Nobody says things like "what is GNU? Is it a kernel, a compiler, a libc, a build system, a set of userspace tools?". Likewise, the systemd project has many utilities under its umbrella, and most of them are completely optional.

[deleted]

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#107

Post by hyakosm »

dralley wrote: post #104
hyakosm wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS is not based on BSD, it's an old legend. NeXTStep was designed to be "compatible" with 4.3BSD (the diagram on Wikipedia is wrong because of this confusion). Edit : source about compatibility on the last page : http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Docs/Developer/NeXT_D...

Many Mac OSX userspace utilities were forked from FreeBSD. It's true that the OS as a whole is not really a FreeBSD derivative, but there definitely is some shared code.

Yes, many OS forked code from FreeBSD, especially on the network stack.

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#108

Post by mcguire »

throwawayboise wrote: post #23
umvi wrote: post #2

Ok, but then if everyone switches to BSD, won't it suffer the same fate? I.e. whenever something goes mainstream, corporations are drawn to it like insects to a lightbulb.

The article addresses that. Companies are free to do whatever they want with BSD and as such they don't need to try to affect the way things are going. If that wasn't the case we would possible see, for example, Sony trying very hard to influence the development of FreeBSD because they use that in their PlayStation products.

You know, this happened before. Back when Unix and BSD were new. The end result was AIX, HP-UX, Irix, Solaris, SunOS and a bunch more. Oh, and the way that there was no good response to Windows NT.

Linux is very, very much more coherent than that chaos.

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#109

Post by [deleted] »

nine_k wrote: post #105
jamiesonbecker wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Systemd is a replacement for Unix... I suppose that in 10 years a linux kernel + systemd could be a complete system, with little need for other userland. 'Doing many things, none of them well' is actually the opposite of UNIX. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy

Sometimes you want a different balance — say, in embedded systems. If you think about busybox, it does something similar, only doing a better job at looking like the traditional userland. There is nothing bad about it. What I find bad is forcing everyone to jump on the same bandwagon, no matter which bandwagon. If I wanted choices made for me, I'd buy a Mac.

[deleted]

Re: Migrate Everything from Linux to BSD

#110

Post by mcguire »

hg35h4 wrote: post #49
vitus wrote: post #32

> DNS over HTTPS is by itself bad enough, and highly criticized with good reason The criticisms of DoH seem to be around removing the ability of third parties to snoop on your DNS queries. Am I missing something here? Like, yes, some of the use cases outlined in the linked wiki article [0] are arguably legitimate (parental controls, cybersecurity identification of C&C nodes), but then we quickly move into murkier ter…

It's horrible for environments with split horizon DNS. It presumes that the only network that should exist are home users consuming public Internet cloud services. For privacy it's a discussion of do I trust my obnoxious non-US ISP or a US based .com with seeing all my browsing habits based on DNS queries. At least I could have legal recourse with my ISP in my own country, and there is slightly better privacy laws.

Split DNS is a stupid, stupid idea. But DoH doesn't sound like an improvement.
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