Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

rd.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 178 posts

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#101

Post by sgtnoodle »

Arainach wrote: post #93
TimTheTinker wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rule #1: teams should not be divided on a country by country basis. I don't think I agree. It's great for individuals and countries to be friendly, but I see two problems with a one-world-government system: 1. It concentrates an extreme quantity of power in the hands of a few people. Power has a potential of corrupting those who hold it, and I believe that potential increases on an exponential (or at least an algeb…

What's the greater evil - the risk that checks and balances fail and an evil person takes over, or that a federated system is unable to reach consensus and address existential threats like climate change or even significant but not quite existential threats like overfishing, pollution, war, and nonrenewable resources?

A more fair choice of options would be, "the risk that an evil person takes over" vs. "the risk that a federated system fails to address existential threats". The way you said it implies probability in the former vs. certainty in the latter.

An explictly evil person or group dominating the world seems like the greater evil in terms of outcome. That would literally be hell on Earth. When you look at probabilities, there's tons of examples in history, across thousands of years, of evil people inevitably rising to power when the system allows for it. Meanwhile, there are relatively few examples of humanity going extinct due to self-inflicted environmental damage.

Isn't federation one of the main checks and balances that keeps evil dictators from taking over the world?

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#102

Post by Stratoscope »

x32n23nr wrote: post #36

Another famous example of how in the darkest hours there's longing for peace and friendship is the Christmas Truce during the first world war [1]. British soldiers heard German troops in the trenches singing carols and patriotic songs. They started shouting messages to each other. The next day, soldiers from both sides met, exchanged gifts, took photographs and played football. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris…

> They sang Christmas carols, exchanged photographs of loved ones back home, shared rations, played football, even roasted some pigs. Soldiers embraced men they had been trying to kill a few short hours before. They agreed to warn each other if the top brass forced them to fire their weapons, and to aim high.

From We CAN Change the World via http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/60/048.html:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00311JUGK

> Across the line, still brandishing his binoculars, Old Horseflesh [a hard-liner] shoves a rifle into Green's hands. "Take a steady aim," he commands. Dodger aims well above Coburg's head, and the lieutenant dives into a handy shell hole. Catching on, the German machine gunners let loose a burst well above the opposite trenches.

From Silent Night:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00311JUGK

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#103

Post by whatshisface »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #78
aerosmile wrote: post #17

There is so much gold in here. The human race would do well to explore how it's possible to turn hatred into love. It clearly happened here, and I've witnessed it on a smaller scale as a 16 year old in Vienna. As an immigrant, it was easy to find yourself in the wrong place at a wrong time. That finally happened one night, and the only thing that saved me was seeing a sign on one of the guys' jackets that belonged to…

> Rule #1: teams should not be divided on a country by country basis. I don't think I agree. It's great for individuals and countries to be friendly, but I see two problems with a one-world-government system: 1. It concentrates an extreme quantity of power in the hands of a few people. Power has a potential of corrupting those who hold it, and I believe that potential increases on an exponential (or at least an algeb…

The OP was not proposing a one world government. They were proposing that there be huge number of overlapping social organizations, based on natural similarities. The International Association of Basket Weavers is not even comparable to a one-world government.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#105

Post by nradov »

sneak wrote: post #74
cheschire wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe war requires hatred, no more than sport. Some people wind up in war through machinations that have nothing to do with even the acknowledgment of the enemy’s existence. Go here, wait there, if your life is in danger, return the danger back at them.

I think the world would be better off if people simply refused the initial "Go here" order from someone who cares nothing for their own life, or the lives of those "there". War cannot be waged without soldiers, and no one is born a soldier. This requires the cultural de-glorification of soldering-as-profession. Millions of tax dollars are spent on advertising to ensuring it remains, and many companies are complicit i…

The US has had a volunteer military for decades. People who would refuse to fight simply never volunteer in the first place.

Boycotting companies for extending a few minor courtesies to the troops is ridiculous and ineffective. If you want to make a difference then get active in politics.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#106

Post by sanguy »

rjsw wrote: post #53
nimbius wrote: post #9

This wasnt very surprising when it happened as historically The united states is its own worst enemy when it comes to military counterintelligence assessments. Id surmise no general wants to openly admit to the enemies asymmetric advantage. Francis Gary Powers was no doubt stunned to find his U2 spyplane tumbling from the skies in 1960 thanks to what I can only imagine is inherent bias in the war room against the ene…

> in 2006 china managed to tail a US aircraft carrier and emerge in torpedo range with a Song 039 type submarine, a generation behind the US, which was previously thought incapable of such an operation. The alternative version of that story is that the Carrier Group commander was quietly commended for not giving away how far out they detected the submarine.

The extended alternate version is that the SSN Jimmy Carter had been ghosting the Song 039 for > days.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#107

Post by TimTheTinker »

whatshisface wrote: post #103
TimTheTinker wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rule #1: teams should not be divided on a country by country basis. I don't think I agree. It's great for individuals and countries to be friendly, but I see two problems with a one-world-government system: 1. It concentrates an extreme quantity of power in the hands of a few people. Power has a potential of corrupting those who hold it, and I believe that potential increases on an exponential (or at least an algeb…

The OP was not proposing a one world government. They were proposing that there be huge number of overlapping social organizations, based on natural similarities. The International Association of Basket Weavers is not even comparable to a one-world government.

Thanks, and agreed with that — organizations that transcend country boundaries are great, as long as they’re not vested with political power.

Perhaps the OP was talking about sports teams in particular? Forming sports teams based on geographic area fits well, and gives people someone to root for without alienating other groups for what would amount to wrongfully discriminatory reasons in other contexts.

But if geographic region isn’t allowed, then finding other criteria can be hard. Who wants to root for the A’s to win against the B’s if there’s nothing besides the name that makes them different?

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#108

Post by derekp7 »

aerosmile wrote: post #17

There is so much gold in here. The human race would do well to explore how it's possible to turn hatred into love. It clearly happened here, and I've witnessed it on a smaller scale as a 16 year old in Vienna. As an immigrant, it was easy to find yourself in the wrong place at a wrong time. That finally happened one night, and the only thing that saved me was seeing a sign on one of the guys' jackets that belonged to…

This was actually a basis for the international Ham Radio scene back in the day I believe. I also see it playing out with FLOSS software development -- to me it is exciting when people from other backgrounds and countries download, comment, and improve on my software.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#109

Post by andrewflnr »

sanguy wrote: post #104

If those two can find friendship I am hopeful we can find unity in the USA. Not sure this administration can make that happen, but I hope eventually it will be achieved.

"Those two" found friendship after a war. I'm still holding out hope that's not the example we follow in the US.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#110

Post by jki275 »

jariel wrote: post #92
jki275 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly hasn't been flying over the Soviet Union. It became obsolete in 1960. That doesn't mean it was no longer useful anywhere.

It's running 10-15K mission hours a year since 1960, that's pretty far from obsolete.

Yeah, I know what it does -- it's had many different missions grafted onto it. It's a cool plane.

But I mean it's obsolete for its original mission. It can't fly higher than Soviet SAMs anymore. It hasn't been able to since the 60s.

Post reply on HN