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B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

sfgate.com

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Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#101

Post by Proven »

snapetom wrote: post #46
ilamont wrote: post #2

Good for him, standing up for his employees who clearly must be very alarmed. B8ta has stores around the globe, and Norby told SFGATE last month that the crime in San Francisco is unlike anything the company experiences elsewhere. “This actually doesn’t happen anywhere else in the country,” he said. “We have 17 other stores, including three internationally. This just doesn’t happen anywhere else. It’s only here.” Why…

Guarantee you if the Seattle store was in Downtown, you would see the same thing. The physical environment is right - huge population of drug addicts and homeless and less populated due to COVID. The political climate is right - the Attorney General barely prosecutes violent assaults, and flat out doesn't prosecute property crimes. The voters are fine with this. The B8ta store here is in an upscale mall in the Univer…

> The voters are fine with this.

Not all voters, but those who vote for the Dems.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#102

Post by tyingq »

conanbatt wrote: post #98
tyingq wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how you solve this. They stock products that are smallish, and easily convertible to cash, so robberies are going to happen. The Devialet speaker in the article is a good example. Retails for over $3k, and weighs 12kg.

Like you do with anything else: rule of law and private property.

Robberies continue to happen in places with over-the-top rule of law.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#103

Post by Khaine »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #71
systemvoltage wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when is even stealing anything excusable? Stealing $300 purse or $30000 car is exactly the same thing morally. The value of the item is in some ways orthogonal. Theft should be punished in the strongest forms possible so no one even thinks about doing it. Minimum 1 year in prison for stealing anything . Convince me otherwise.

I mostly agree with you. But... Let's say someone steals a $300 purse or a $30000 car. Nobody needs either a $300 purse or a $30000 car. But let's say someone steals $10 of food from a grocery store. They may legitimately need that. (Or they may just have poor self-control.) If someone legitimately needs food, I could bend my mind far enough to call that "excusable".

And what of the local business owner who has invested his life saving in a business, and needs the income from the business to feed his family? How is it okay to let people steal from him because "it's only $10". Thats figuratively food being taken from his family's mouth.

This is why laws need to be enforced uniformly.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#104

Post by Khaine »

cecida wrote: post #35
hindsightbias wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF leads in all areas of innovation, including crime. In the Covid era, tourists are not present in the quantities required to sustain various career populations, including criminals. Guns aren’t really necessary in SF, so there may be some gang initiation threshold.

I traveled to SF a number of times with work 2 years ago. I'm not trying to sound like a smug social democratic European, but I couldn't get over the homelessness, the petty vandalism, the rubbish, and the overall air of menace in the place.

That was my sense as well, when I visited in 2019 for a conference.

My boss said it was like watching the walking dead with 'zombies' everywhere.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#105

Post by mgm1709 »

tjalfi wrote: post #9
ilamont wrote: post #2

Good for him, standing up for his employees who clearly must be very alarmed. B8ta has stores around the globe, and Norby told SFGATE last month that the crime in San Francisco is unlike anything the company experiences elsewhere. “This actually doesn’t happen anywhere else in the country,” he said. “We have 17 other stores, including three internationally. This just doesn’t happen anywhere else. It’s only here.” Why…

Proposition 47[0] in 2014 substantially reduced the penalties for shoplifting, grand theft, forgery, fraud, and other crimes. Stealing It would be surprising if this didn't lead to a substantial increase in the crime rate. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47

Statewide crime rates in California fell consistently in the years subsequent to the passage of Prop. 47, and in 2019 the state’s statewide crime rates reached their lowest levels in recorded history

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#106

Post by redis_mlc »

mgm1709 wrote: post #105
tjalfi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proposition 47[0] in 2014 substantially reduced the penalties for shoplifting, grand theft, forgery, fraud, and other crimes. Stealing It would be surprising if this didn't lead to a substantial increase in the crime rate. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47

Statewide crime rates in California fell consistently in the years subsequent to the passage of Prop. 47, and in 2019 the state’s statewide crime rates reached their lowest levels in recorded history

If you don't arrest anybody, then stats will go down.

I live in SF, and it's pretty dangerous. So whatever stats you're quoting don't apply to SF.

I suggest you watch some of the antifa/BLM downtown attacks on pedestrians to see what lawlessness looks like - that happens daily in SF.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#107

Post by ALittleLight »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #90
ALittleLight wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they are drug addicts and criminals because they don't want to do hard work for low pay.

Assume that is true, what do you do when they pull a gun, pay them more?

I think it's more productive to think about what you'd do in the typical case.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#108

Post by powerslacker »

tjalfi wrote: post #9
ilamont wrote: post #2

Good for him, standing up for his employees who clearly must be very alarmed. B8ta has stores around the globe, and Norby told SFGATE last month that the crime in San Francisco is unlike anything the company experiences elsewhere. “This actually doesn’t happen anywhere else in the country,” he said. “We have 17 other stores, including three internationally. This just doesn’t happen anywhere else. It’s only here.” Why…

Proposition 47[0] in 2014 substantially reduced the penalties for shoplifting, grand theft, forgery, fraud, and other crimes. Stealing It would be surprising if this didn't lead to a substantial increase in the crime rate. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47

This is actually the main reason I left California. Legalized lawlessness. Law enforcement fought like crazy to convince people that this was terrible legislation. Unfortunately, it passed and I packed up my stuff a few months later. Most folks in other states don't realize how bad the situation is in the Bay area.

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#109

Post by ehvatum »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #71
systemvoltage wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when is even stealing anything excusable? Stealing $300 purse or $30000 car is exactly the same thing morally. The value of the item is in some ways orthogonal. Theft should be punished in the strongest forms possible so no one even thinks about doing it. Minimum 1 year in prison for stealing anything . Convince me otherwise.

I mostly agree with you. But... Let's say someone steals a $300 purse or a $30000 car. Nobody needs either a $300 purse or a $30000 car. But let's say someone steals $10 of food from a grocery store. They may legitimately need that. (Or they may just have poor self-control.) If someone legitimately needs food, I could bend my mind far enough to call that "excusable".

> But let's say someone steals $10 of food from a grocery store

If you allow that, you will soon enough be without grocery stores!!!

Re: B8ta closing another San Francisco store after armed robbery

#110

Post by babesh »

gumby wrote: post #25
proc0 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SF leads in all areas of innovation, including crime. Not anymore they won't. And you think criminals from outside the city/state don't know that people have no guns there? That's attractive to anyone trying to break the law.

Do people really travel any kind of distance to commit crimes? I thought that most crimes were committed in one's own neighborhood, then nearby ones.

They often go to where it is most optimal to commit a certain crime. For instance, a bank nearby was robbed this morning. It’s close to a freeway. Another example, a bunch of cars near the freeway had their catalytic converters taken out. Lastly, package thieves are quite common in my neighborhood (the packages are dropped off in front of doors visible from the street). In all these cases, the criminals case places from their cars. Also when the police do catch them, they are usually not residents of the city but often but not always live maybe 10-20 miles away.
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