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Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

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Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#101
For me, and I think the majority, memory is where you keep what your brain thinks that it will use again.

If your job is to make and fix/tweak the style of a web page, and you do it practically everyday, you probably can make a pretty decent css file without even looking away from the editor. But if you then need to make a basic html page, you will probably search.

If you use an ide with autocompletion, you probably won't remember the correct camelCase of even common functions (is it instaceof or instaceOf?) but if you work on an embedded system with a plain console editor you probably remember them all (or at least the most used ones).

I remember when I was actively using Lightning Launcher (an android launcher with JavaScript capabilities) that I could make full scripts almost without pressing delete, when its editor was simply a big textarea (no autocompletion, no colors, not even automatic indentation). I did need to check the docs from time to time, but their limited (and logical) set of basic functions made it easy for me to remember. Nowadays I need to check everything again, because I simply forgot due to not using it much.

Answering the question: yes, yes I can, a very basic but working one, simply because I like making small tool pages for myself, coding directly from my phone (in a basic text editor). But when I need to do something not so basic, like checking if the user has scrolled to the bottom of the page, I search it.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#102
post #50

I would not be surprised if even Professional Web Developers cant do it. Especially if you include deployment. This isn't the old days of FTP, Perl or PHP anymore. There are too much information I cant memorise every single bit of it. And I dont think you should either. Especially in the age of Google. My memory capacity has its limit, and there are things I just decide it is not important enough to memorise when I c…

You could probably sell and create this as a “coding reality show” with live camera and screen feed.

Maybe a “Big brother season 1” style. I’d watch that.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#103
Does looking at old code I've written and have locally count?

What about offline documentation like help() in python?

Without either of those it would be iffy. I could probably do something that updates data consistantly but using a serious database or doing authentication correctly might be a stretch.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#104
post #97

Yes I can. I regularly disconnect for a hacking session, reduces distractions and I find it often helps me come up with simpler solutions then building something up out of what's already there. Its also nice to spend some time on my boat and still get some work done :)

I was going to post something along the same lines. I know my framework, I know my code, and I absolutely can create a web app offline without using google.

I also enjoy boats and working from them from time to time.

A lot of people missed the fact that good intellisense style code completion, local docs (rdoc, what have you) are still viable. Also having some PDF’s on your machine of programming books helps you not google for solutions.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#105
I can't and I don't care. I consider my programming skills to be 100% based on my ability to know what to search for and not necessarily on my ability to remember trivial things like the exact sequence of things needed to initialize a framework or whatever.

What I care about is having good foundations that help me to undestand what exactly I need to look for and that's by itself and invaluable skill.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#106
I probably could at some point. It's pretty easy: you do the right commands to generate a Java project from a maven archetype or to start a Rails project, you hook up your git repo to Heroku, tweak some HTML. Today if I wanted to, I could memorize the sequences to stick some node.js inside of an AWS Lambda.

There are at least a few problems with this: 1. I don't have to create a basic web app frequently, so I've forgotten the commands. They're easy to find with googling. It's not worth my time to memorize them. (When I was learning to program in the 90's my family didn't have Internet access yet, but if you replace "google" with "looking through helpfiles or programming books," you get the same effect.)

2. The kinds of webapps professional software engineers build generally aren't "basic." Webapps at the professional level are complicated. Rather than "an over-reliance on documentation indicate a lack of critical expertise that will ultimately result in considerably lower job performance," reliance on documentation seems to be more about having more tools at our hands to build software that's more maintainable in the long run. We have frameworks/services that handle payments, security, storing data, and so on for us. The trade-off for delegating to others solving ancillary problems for you is that you have to read their documentation.

3. More and more in my career, I find myself not just googling technology but to try to understand business domains. Our job isn't to tell our boss "Here's a webapp!" Our job is to solve a customer need, and that involves understanding who the customer is. Could I shovel some code out the door without googling around for something? Maybe, but it probably wouldn't be very good.

4. All else being equal, I'd rather work with an engineer who is good at finding information quickly rather than someone who insists on figuring it out. Google is not some magic mind reader - you have to know the names of some of the things your trying to do, you have to assess the likelihood of an approach is worth trying, and even if you do get an answer from Google, you'll inevitably need to adapt it in some way to meet your need. Sometimes, it's not enough to look it up in Google, you have to reach out to other people, and you need to know how to formulate your question to help others help you. There is skill involved in finding information.

5. I look up things that I already know all the time. Just because you know something, that doesn't mean you shouldn't double check that you know it as well as you think, or that there isn't some better answer or solution. For one example within programming, I'll look up articles I read 6 years ago that do a good job of explaining an idea to someone before I give feedback on a code review and I have to explain a similar idea.

So, engineers don't just memorize stuff for the sake of it. Anyone reading this article shouldn't feel like they're not a real engineer because they can't do what the author suggested.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#109
Most of the time, we're not starting a project, so making a basic web app isn't something most of us do often. That said, there's still an over-reliance on google and the web. A better test would be: can you close tickets in your current project without googling?

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#110
Yes, I can and I have done it before, under time pressure.

I was one of the original employees of k12.com, working as a Sun/Solaris sysadmin and late one night the "web team" had a next-day deadline to make a registration system work.

There were press releases and print materials being released the next morning with addresses and registration forms that needed to work and their big bloated "stack" was not producing anything workable for any of them.

I ftp'd over an old, personal copy of cgi-lib.pl and hacked up a little web page that dumped to a flat file and cc'd an email address with every registration.

It took about 45 minutes and they used it for a year.

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