Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 256 posts

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#101

Post by FullNameAndy »

kitd wrote: post #99
cycomanic wrote: post #63

Great idea! I used to be a competitive rower. When I was working at a gym during my studies I was actually talking with the managers of running some rowing classes (similar to spinning). I think the main challenge with rowing machines (and the reason why we didn't do rowing classes), is that for beginners there is essentially only hard or off, i.e. it is difficult to adjust to different exhaustion levels. That leads…

The other challenge I is related to hardware. The reason why everyone is talking about the C2s is that pretty much every other machine is crap. The forces pulling on these machines are substantive and concept managed to make a machine that held up over time, unlike the others. So I hope you guys made those things sturdy enough. Robustness isn't the only reason C2s are considered the best. Unlike all the cheap brands,…

You might be surprised to hear that regardless of what the damper is set to, the metrics do not change on the display if you were to maintain the same SPM and stroke length.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#102

Post by FullNameAndy »

bigfish24 wrote: post #100

As former competitive rower, can’t see switching to anything but C2, but I like the idea to expand the market to more. My biggest concern is that it tends to take 4-6 weeks to get comfortable with posture and just sitting on the machine for extended periods (the unfortunate challenge of the machine engaging so many muscles). For novices, this valley of death is where so many give up. For example, coming back in the f…

Thanks for the support! Exactly, we aren't going after the hard core crowd. We feel rowing is amazing and we can get more butts of seats by making the experience more enjoyable.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#103

Post by SamBam »

FullNameAndy wrote: post #36
shmatt wrote: post #19

Apple is currently the only company in the fitness world that can afford to force hardware and software coupling. You are not Apple. Peloton, which you compare yourself to, allows me to use my Life Fitness bike with their platform, and they even charge me about 70% less than they charge their own bike buyers. Hopefully this will soon sink in, there is a huge market of people who already invested thousands in their wo…

You make some good points. A huge part of our experience is the electronically controlled resistance that adds up to 100+ lbs of force. Our high-intensity games and strength content, which differentiates us, requires this and the reason why we opted to build our own rower instead of just an app or working with any rower.

And yet so many rowers are saying that the electronically-controlled resistance doesn't really make sense in a rower, which should not be changing the resistance all the time.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#104

Post by useful »

cycomanic wrote: post #78
useful wrote: post #65

I have a C2 and a Wahoo Kickr. I think you are targeting the wrong market if you intend to build a machine. As a cyclist, the market sweet spot to me is the ability to set a wattage on a rower and have the machine automatically adjust the resistance so that I can hit the correct wattage/hour. On the bike, holding a steady cadence and having the machine adjust the resistance so I can hit whatever % of FTP I'm wanting…

I have a tacx bike, no rower at the moment, but I get on them every time I'm at the gym. I think the smart bike and rower are very different in terms of what you'd do with them. In contrast to a smart bike a rower who constantly adjusts is much harder to use. In fact on low resistance rowers are almost impossible to use. It's also much easier than on the bike to row at a specific wattage without ever adjusting the re…

Once you get the "feel" doing wattage is pretty easy on a static trainer if you change gears or your pedal stroke rate. That amount of practice and effort to learn when you only want to spend 10-20 minutes working out is beyond a beginner. Aviron's whole website is built around games and varied resistance. Having the rower do all the thinking for the user ala zwift workouts on a tacx is attractive.

I don't understand why pelotons are popular when a tacx/wahoo/etc are lightyears ahead in feel and blunting the peaks of "pain" from beginner mistakes. The more advanced ERGs that adjust are super forgiving and the same would be for rowing, avoiding pulling too much lbf and having your arms hurt for weeks = avoiding the workouts.

People doing HIIT cardio usually blow up if they put out 10% more wattage for a minute or two than their FTP. If a machine makes it so you can workout "forever" and simplifies the interface of games/workouts so users only need to focus on a single metric for game while adjusting all the others, it would be a killer feature.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#105

Post by AWildC182 »

mawise wrote: post #26

> I feel like sometimes this pisses the hardcore rowers off but I’m not a rower, I’m a tech guy. I also think fitness is important and have been working out all of my adult life. Some other comments have mentioned the Concept 2 and how it's the standard. It sounds like you're actually targeting non-rowers who want a Peloton-like experience. (Sort of like how Peloton doesn't really target the cycling community). Is th…

Just for context, standard is defined on two fronts.

1. Each machine computes effective Watts differently, so pulling your guts out might be 1kW on one machine, and 400W on another. Whichever one everyone has the most experience with wins here.

2. There are a bunch of different designs across about three different resistance modes available A. air B. water and C. hydraulic piston. Air is generally regarded as the best as it doesn't change felt resistance with time, though it can be somewhat noisy, maybe 70dB. Water heats up as all the energy is dumped into it without anywhere else for it to go, so the viscosity changes very noticeably over a long workout. These also tend to have a nylon strap instead of a chain which stretches and can cause an odd sensation. Finally the worst, hydraulic piston, which has the smallest mass to dump energy into, will change resistance dramatically in a short time, and have been known to fail with experienced rowers, sometimes explosively.

There is room for an electrical resistance variant in this lineup, as has been shown with cycling, though it's important to note that thermodynamics specifies the energy has to go somewhere, and you may end up with a dangerously hot resistor bank somewhere on the machine.

It should also be noted that experienced rowers can output a considerable amount of power. Enough to cause piston rowers to overheat and explode/vent. Just because your resident mechanical engineer can't break the prototype doesn't mean you shouldn't find someone who can hit National Team numbers and have them go at it for an hour straight.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#106

Post by kart23 »

FullNameAndy wrote: post #101
kitd wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other challenge I is related to hardware. The reason why everyone is talking about the C2s is that pretty much every other machine is crap. The forces pulling on these machines are substantive and concept managed to make a machine that held up over time, unlike the others. So I hope you guys made those things sturdy enough. Robustness isn't the only reason C2s are considered the best. Unlike all the cheap brands,…

You might be surprised to hear that regardless of what the damper is set to, the metrics do not change on the display if you were to maintain the same SPM and stroke length.

Not sure what you're claiming, but SPM and stroke length isn't a measure of how much work you are doing. For instance, you could have the exact same SPM, stroke length, and damper settings, and row either a 3:00 or a 2:00 500m time.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#107

Post by thehappypm »

Rooster61 wrote: post #87

C2 owner here, and an ADHD sufferer as well. I've always utterly hated working out throughout my life as sitting on a machine or out running without a goal other than "work out to maintain health" bores me out of my mind. I keep it bearable right now by catching up on TV (the little bit of time I have to actually watch anything these days), but gamification I think would get me even more into it. I'd probably be inte…

I struggle with this too. A bit of a sidebar but hiking is by far my favorite form of cardio. Constant stimulation, changing scenery.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#108

Post by jedc »

elliekelly wrote: post #40
mawise wrote: post #26

> I feel like sometimes this pisses the hardcore rowers off but I’m not a rower, I’m a tech guy. I also think fitness is important and have been working out all of my adult life. Some other comments have mentioned the Concept 2 and how it's the standard. It sounds like you're actually targeting non-rowers who want a Peloton-like experience. (Sort of like how Peloton doesn't really target the cycling community). Is th…

I'm not OP but I suspect I'm in their target demographic. Orangetheory Fitness doesn't use the Concept2 and no one cares. I've never once heard anyone at Orangetheory complain that the machine wasn't a Concept2. I don't think the former rowers in this thread complaining about the machine are at all reflective of the public at large.

I'm an OrangeTheory user and complain to my rower friends that OT doesn't use Concept2's. But it's not like I have any hope of getting OT to adopt a different product, and it's a relatively small part of an OT workout.

Re: Launch HN: Aviron (YC W21) – High-Intensity Peloton for Rowing

#110

Post by gavanwoolery »

I gotta say, rowing had zero appeal for me until I got into HIIT (F45).

Even though I have been using it for three years, I would still say it is the most punishing/rewarding piece of equipment at my gym, and probably the only one that is still capable of leaving me (literally) breathless.

I've been thinking about getting a rowing machine for home just for some quick two-minute bursts of cardio to break up my sitting, so this might be a worthwhile purchase when I can budget it in. Also my wife has been looking to buy a Peloton so maybe I can convince her to get this instead. :)

Post reply on HN