Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm

#101

Post by neartheplain » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

SauciestGNU wrote: post #98

neartheplain wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

individuals murdered by far right individuals During the summer’s BLM activities? Name one.

Two people were murdered by Kyle Rittenhouse, a boogaloo adherent murdered a courthouse guard in California. There's three.

I'm particularly well-read on the Rittenhouse case. I've seen all the livestreams and tracked new developments as the case approaches trial. My impression of the case clearly differs from yours. I will outline my view and the evidence behind it:

Kyle Rittenhouse is not far-right or a "Boogaloo adherent." There is no evidence to back those claims. These claims were made early on with zero proof by US Congresswomen Ayanna Pressley [0], then widely repeated as truth. In actual fact, he's a teenage Republican and former Public Safety Cadet [1].

He acted in self-defense. Extensive video evidence and witness testimony proves this [2]. I'll be surprised if the jury returns a guilty verdict. If you disagree, I'd ask that you review his legal team's video [2] which lays forth most of the evidence in Kyle's favor. Their analysis aligns with and augments that done by the New York Times' Visual Investigations team [3].

The assembled evidence is clear, compelling, and exonerates Rittenhouse. A deep-dive convinced progressive columnist Eric Zorn at the Baltimore Sun of Kyle's innocence [4]. Few of those writing about the case on Twitter and in print have immersed themselves in the evidence this way.

As to the California Boogaloo guy, Steven Carrillo: sure, you could call the him far-right. He wasn't a fan of police, Donald Trump, or the Republican Party, per crime scene graffiti and his social media [5]. The Boogaloo movement in general is not ideologically consistent, or consistently far-right, as outlined by GWU professor and extremism researcher JJ MacNab [6]. But to your point, he wasn't part of the Black Lives Matter movement.

Carrillo and his accomplice murdered 2 victims. That leaves a significant number of deaths for which the violent elements of BLM remain responsible, and for which almost no one has been held accountable, even just in the public discourse. The tension between those downplayed crimes and the media spotlight on unruly conservatives has stoked anger among many on the right.

[0] https://twitter.com/ayannapressley/status/129878054043122483...

[1] https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/report-kenosha-shooting...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4dhPM99i4I&t=45s

[3] https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298839097923063809

[4] https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/eric-zorn/ct-column-r...

[5] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-charged-deputy-ambu...

[6] https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/1266767564627034121

Re: Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm

#102

Post by SauciestGNU » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

neartheplain wrote: post #101

SauciestGNU wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two people were murdered by Kyle Rittenhouse, a boogaloo adherent murdered a courthouse guard in California. There's three.

I'm particularly well-read on the Rittenhouse case. I've seen all the livestreams and tracked new developments as the case approaches trial. My impression of the case clearly differs from yours. I will outline my view and the evidence behind it: Kyle Rittenhouse is not far-right or a "Boogaloo adherent." There is no evidence to back those claims. These claims were made early on with zero proof by US Congresswomen Aya…

I'm curious what you make of Kyle Rittenhouse posing with Proud Boys and flashing white power hand gestures, if that changes your calculus regarding his political beliefs at all.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/14/kyle-ritten...

Re: Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm

#103

Post by neartheplain » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

SauciestGNU wrote: post #102

neartheplain wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm particularly well-read on the Rittenhouse case. I've seen all the livestreams and tracked new developments as the case approaches trial. My impression of the case clearly differs from yours. I will outline my view and the evidence behind it: Kyle Rittenhouse is not far-right or a "Boogaloo adherent." There is no evidence to back those claims. These claims were made early on with zero proof by US Congresswomen Aya…

I'm curious what you make of Kyle Rittenhouse posing with Proud Boys and flashing white power hand gestures, if that changes your calculus regarding his political beliefs at all. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/14/kyle-ritten...

This happened in the last few days, so I hadn't seen it. Neither had Rep. Pressley when she made her tweet many months ago.

Doesn't alter the case in the least. Still clear self-defense. Post-hoc assignment of affiliation doesn't stick. An earlier court search of Kyle's social media revealed no far-right affiliation [0]. As things are now, the media made him a pariah, so only pariahs like the Proud Boys will accept him. Same thing happened with George Zimmerman; the sad yet predictable outcome of forcing someone out of polite society. And that’s not to mention all the death threats [1], which would probably make the offer of Proud Boy protection appealing.

The meaning of that hand sign's in the eye of the beholder, as anyone familiar with its history will know.

[0] https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/rittenhouse_response...

[1] https://patch.com/illinois/grayslake/rittenhouses-mom-chasti...

Re: Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm

#104

Post by newen » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 4:17 PM UTC

neartheplain wrote: post #103

SauciestGNU wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what you make of Kyle Rittenhouse posing with Proud Boys and flashing white power hand gestures, if that changes your calculus regarding his political beliefs at all. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/14/kyle-ritten...

This happened in the last few days, so I hadn't seen it. Neither had Rep. Pressley when she made her tweet many months ago. Doesn't alter the case in the least. Still clear self-defense. Post-hoc assignment of affiliation doesn't stick. An earlier court search of Kyle's social media revealed no far-right affiliation [0]. As things are now, the media made him a pariah, so only pariahs like the Proud Boys will accept h…

I still can't believe 4chan actually managed to make the OK hand sign into a white power hand sign. Pretty impressive.

Re: Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm

#105

Post by rebuilder » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

hyko wrote: post #89

rebuilder wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to say the exact opposite. Well, almost. You do need some action against the most radicalised, violent elements. Goal #1 of a radical organisation: create a division. Your narrative is that you represent a downtrodden demographic - "us" - whose misfortune is caused by those in power - "them". Goal #2: invite hatred and repression The worst thing that can happen for you is for your division to dissolve. Yo…

I agree that we should work to undermine the forces of radicalisation; outreach and social justice efforts may bear fruit in decades or centuries. Democracy is at stake today. We must acknowledge that all the rights and privileges we enjoy in a democracy exist because they are backed up with recourse to an organisation that can defeat anyone else physically. There can be no leniency when someone threatens the governm…

I think we'd need to get more specific to talk about what kind of response is warranted. I'm certainly not saying violent acts should be ignored. What I am saying is that it's important to prosecute criminals, not members of a radical group. That needs to be a clear message. Law enforcement is targeted at criminals, not groups of people. The radicals will try to paint any government action as unfair oppression, so it's important that the reactions do not overreach, or you get the dynamic I described above.

Re: Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm

#106

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

burmanm wrote: post #57

asdf333 wrote: post #12

https://twitter.com/davetroy/status/1327257161739677697 looks like there are some legit questions on Parler and its origins.

Sadly that Twitter thread looks more like the usual conspiracy theory, trying to link multiple "but this looks weird" facts without actual knowledge. The same kind of things used by the opposing side to come up with any of their latest "George Soros controls the world" or other odd theories. A slight double standard in that sense.

I think there's a lot more substance to that thread, that includes things like looking up company registrations (and not finding them), discussions of salary costs, etc.

To compare it to "George Soros is paying hundreds of thousands of crisis actors to show up at BLM protests" is begging the question, with respect to what a conspiracy theory actually is.

Re: Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm

#107

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

anewaccount2021 wrote: post #11

sethgoodluck wrote: post #2

Now 2021 is shaping up to be one interesting year... thoughts folks?

the US is becoming a risky place to host your infra. you can be deplatformed on a whim, as a result of petty internal ideological resistance anywhere in your supply chain. no infrastructure partner will go to bat for you, they'd rather forgo your money in favor of passing a regime's purity test you might also be subject to sweeping legislation that allows the US govt to act against you if you are not politically alig…

Which regime purity test would that be?

Twitter has said _for years, during his "regime"_ (funny that you used that word) that if Trump wasn't a "public figure", he would have been banned.

Re: Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm

#108

Post by myWindoonn » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

MikeUt wrote: post #36

killjoywashere wrote: post #7

Why is this anything other than direct foreign interference in the democratic process?

So are Facebook and Twitter direct foreign interference in the democratic process of every country other than the US? Bear in mind that Twitter's exec in charge of the Middle East is a British army psyops officer: https://www.newsweek.com/twitter-executive-revealed-psyops-s...

Actually, yes, large companies often interfere in foreign governments' affairs. For a good recent example involving Facebook, consider the situation in Myanmar. Eric Schmidt, a revolving-door executive who connected Google/Alphabet to the federal government, went to Myanmar in 2013 as they were transitioning from a junta to a democracy [0] in order to advocate that they adopt free and open Internet access [3]. That year, Myanmar allowed foreign telecommunications companies to operate, dropping the price of SIM cards by a hundredfold [1]. Facebook went live in Myanmar that year too, and enabled the junta to start spreading racist memes. Violence started to spread, and by 2016, an ongoing government-supported genocide of the Rohingya had started [2].

I am not saying that tech companies desired a genocide, but I am saying that their policies, platforms, and interference in foreign affairs are complicit in genocide.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932015_Myanmar_poli...

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-45449938

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Schmidt#Advocating_open_I...

Re: Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm

#109

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #43

First line: 'Parler, a social media website and app popular with the American far right' Parler is/was essentially a free speech libertarian site with strict rules and guidelines for posts. I find it disturbing that the overwhelmingly US neo conservative liberal media companies slap the label 'far right' on just abut anything that doesn't fit their world view and agenda. Any sort of recognition there are center right…

Parler's CEO freely admitted that they were monitoring "antifa sites" and would ban anyone who appeared affiliated.

There are also many comments from Parler moderators, and staff, and examples of left-wing positive commentary being deleted.

So it seems that there's definitely a suitability to the "right" label, if not "far right".

Let's be very clear, Parler is not a free-speech site.

Re: Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm

#110

Post by olivermarks » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #109

olivermarks wrote: post #43

First line: 'Parler, a social media website and app popular with the American far right' Parler is/was essentially a free speech libertarian site with strict rules and guidelines for posts. I find it disturbing that the overwhelmingly US neo conservative liberal media companies slap the label 'far right' on just abut anything that doesn't fit their world view and agenda. Any sort of recognition there are center right…

Parler's CEO freely admitted that they were monitoring "antifa sites" and would ban anyone who appeared affiliated. There are also many comments from Parler moderators, and staff, and examples of left-wing positive commentary being deleted. So it seems that there's definitely a suitability to the "right" label, if not "far right". Let's be very clear, Parler is not a free-speech site.

Where did Parler's CEO 'freely admit this'? I couldn't find any evidence of that in fact quite the contrary.