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German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

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Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#101

Post by Kappe »

Tepix wrote: post #91
martin_a wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. As a German, I can, with no problem whatsoever, go into the next supermarket and buy enough alcohol and cigarettes to severly hurt myself. No one gives a shit, probably because the state earns money when I do so. Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

Alcohol is a big problem in Germany: 3 million people with alcohol issues and 74,000 yearly deaths.² Weed is considered less of a problem by the scientific community. The logical conclusion: Increase taxes on alcohol and legalize weed. -- ² https://www.dhs.de/suechte/alkohol/zahlen-daten-fakten

Increase social network, social support, make it less stigamtic and put more money into streetworkers etc.

And still let people do drugs if they want;

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#102

Post by Tenoke »

akvadrako wrote: post #89
loves_mangoes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what HN's policy is on discussion of illegal marketplaces, but I imagine it's no secret that the new #1 is White House Market.

Yepp, I second WHM. I'm not sure it's the largest, but it seems the most well run. Notably they only accept Monero; I wonder if that will help them stay safe from the police.

It might help some sellers and buyers but most markets get taken down (as far as we know) through unrelated to the currencies used means.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#103

Post by starfallg »

88840-8855 wrote: post #88
martin_a wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. As a German, I can, with no problem whatsoever, go into the next supermarket and buy enough alcohol and cigarettes to severly hurt myself. No one gives a shit, probably because the state earns money when I do so. Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

"So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly." Same logic as... "let us not legally force face masks on people, but trust in their responsibility. Let us not control social distancing, but trust that people, especially young people, will be responsible" ... booooom, over 9000 covid cases. Democracy assumes rational people and people with responsibility. We see now how well it all w…

>Democracy assumes rational people and people with responsibility. We see now how well it all works.

That's got nothing to do with whether people are in a Democracy at all. It's not even to do with whether the society is individualistic or collectivist. It's more to do populist messaging and how they are spread.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#104

Post by quchen »

martin_a wrote: post #79
pengaru wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhh... weed is not even close to the most purchased drug via the dark web. Certainly not in plant matter form. They'd have to legalize all the club/party drugs to make a dent; pills and powders, lsd.

So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. As a German, I can, with no problem whatsoever, go into the next supermarket and buy enough alcohol and cigarettes to severly hurt myself. No one gives a shit, probably because the state earns money when I do so. Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

| So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly.

Like for alcohol, I doubt that would work. Some substances are simply hard to use responsibly, some offer unique ways of escapism (especially during a lockdown), many people lack restraint. I don’t imagine the number of people dependent on substances would go down, it would probably just diversify. In the end, I think it’s very hard to predict societal outcome of such a big decision. To name a few – confused parents, drug tourism, self-medication instead of going to doctors.

In any case, we don’t have to go fully legal-as-broccoli drugs. We could start by decriminalization for well-defined amounts, by legalizing drug checking, by educating instead of fearmongering. But since we replaced the worst imaginable state representative for drugs with the second worst imaginable state representative for drugs, I doubt anything will happen here soon.

| Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

It’s not that people are liars, most just don’t know that alcohol is among the hardest drugs out there, and fear the unknown.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#105

Post by Nextgrid »

TrackerFF wrote: post #80
seibelj wrote: post #23

No matter what anyone says, I believe with every fiber of my being that simple drug dealing is a victimless crime. Free people choose to purchase and consume drugs to their own detriment (benefit). All violence related to the sale of drugs is ancillary to the fact some drugs (but not others - alcohol, marijuana, caffeine for starters) are illegal. https://freeross.org/

The problem with black markets - of pretty much any kind - is that they soon attract most things illegal. A good chunk of the population would probably be OK with them only selling weed, but then you have stolen credit cards, weapons, and what not. And the more unscrupulous the seller is/becomes, the worse it gets. It's like with small-town drug dealers. Kids seek them to purchase weed, but then after a while the dea…

> they soon attract most things illegal

"Most things illegal", at least the violent kind (weapons, etc) is typically related to the war on drugs. If we stop the war on drugs, the demand for weapons will fall dramatically. Most violence you get in major cities is drug gangs fighting each other. The war on drugs ending would also put an end to that and their demand for weapons.

Fraud can be dealt with technical improvements. There's no reason card fraud is still a thing in today's day and age. You're telling me I can buy a ~50$ smart card, put a client certificate in it and nobody else can login as me without physically having the card but banks can't do the same? Come on.

Whatever remains then (which is going to be in much lower volume) can be dealt with later.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#106

Post by Nextgrid »

orange_tee wrote: post #94
seibelj wrote: post #23

No matter what anyone says, I believe with every fiber of my being that simple drug dealing is a victimless crime. Free people choose to purchase and consume drugs to their own detriment (benefit). All violence related to the sale of drugs is ancillary to the fact some drugs (but not others - alcohol, marijuana, caffeine for starters) are illegal. https://freeross.org/

This freewill argument, you can make about a lot of things that are ultimately detrimental to society. Some people are gullible, others ignorant, and others still desperate. It's just not a good argument. For example, I don't want all grannies in my town to get swindled out of their property by smooth talking scammers. Your freewill argument would allow for that. I think that is individualism taken to the extreme and…

(Sensible) drug use doesn't hurt anyone else though. Most of the violence surrounding drugs is because the lack of a legal supply chain for it.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#107

Post by TrackerFF »

redisman wrote: post #84
TrackerFF wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with black markets - of pretty much any kind - is that they soon attract most things illegal. A good chunk of the population would probably be OK with them only selling weed, but then you have stolen credit cards, weapons, and what not. And the more unscrupulous the seller is/becomes, the worse it gets. It's like with small-town drug dealers. Kids seek them to purchase weed, but then after a while the dea…

> It's like with small-town drug dealers. Kids seek them to purchase weed, but then after a while the dealer is trying to push other stuff on them. This sounds like one of those 90's scary stories. Do you also believe that the first dose is free?

Coming from a very small village (population around 3000), that was absolutely the case back then. The very few people that were dealing, sold everything they could sell.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#108

Post by lucioperca »

martin_a wrote: post #79
pengaru wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhh... weed is not even close to the most purchased drug via the dark web. Certainly not in plant matter form. They'd have to legalize all the club/party drugs to make a dent; pills and powders, lsd.

So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. As a German, I can, with no problem whatsoever, go into the next supermarket and buy enough alcohol and cigarettes to severly hurt myself. No one gives a shit, probably because the state earns money when I do so. Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/nov/02/david-nutt-d...

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#109

Post by inglor_cz »

Tepix wrote: post #91
martin_a wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. As a German, I can, with no problem whatsoever, go into the next supermarket and buy enough alcohol and cigarettes to severly hurt myself. No one gives a shit, probably because the state earns money when I do so. Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

Alcohol is a big problem in Germany: 3 million people with alcohol issues and 74,000 yearly deaths.² Weed is considered less of a problem by the scientific community. The logical conclusion: Increase taxes on alcohol and legalize weed. -- ² https://www.dhs.de/suechte/alkohol/zahlen-daten-fakten

> Increase taxes on alcohol

Illegal production of homebrewn alcohol is a thing and has been for centuries. Raising taxes at will does not mean that everyone will, unhappily, continue to buy expensive alcohol in the store. There is a limit after which people will start to produce their own moonshine, which is less safe than whatever you buy legally. Or start drinking various chemicals that resemble alcohol. (Window cleaner is a big hit.)

The problems with War on Drugs translate neatly to any possible War on Alcohol as well: the black market will kick in once it has a good business case to exist, and all sort of problems will come with its emergence.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#110

Post by nullsense »

Nextgrid wrote: post #106
orange_tee wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This freewill argument, you can make about a lot of things that are ultimately detrimental to society. Some people are gullible, others ignorant, and others still desperate. It's just not a good argument. For example, I don't want all grannies in my town to get swindled out of their property by smooth talking scammers. Your freewill argument would allow for that. I think that is individualism taken to the extreme and…

(Sensible) drug use doesn't hurt anyone else though. Most of the violence surrounding drugs is because the lack of a legal supply chain for it.

https://images.app.goo.gl/Pc8NyKMjaV3MNPyu8

Tell it to that kid.

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