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Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

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Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#101

Post by jimnotgym »

tyingq wrote: post #80
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

"The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever." This is worse than it used to be, as companies of any size can now pull not just convictions, but arrests as well. And not just felonies, but misdemeanors too. Background checks used to be less accessible. They are now cheap, fast, and easily nationwide or worldwide.

Arrests? That surely is a clear violation of the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#102

Post by dado3212 »

Locked In by John Pfaff does a great job of discussing prison reform, and the fallbacks of common mantras (such as this one). He observes that "setting every drug offender free would cut our prison population by only about 16 percent...still more than 200,000 people -- and that's a huge number by any measure."

Because many offenses/crimes were dropped as part of plea bargaining, it's also hard to indicate how many would actually be characterized as "non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence". Pfaff tries to estimate this using Bureau of Justice Statistics surveying that asks inmates questions that go beyond their official convictions. According to this "about 1 percent of all prisoners...met that description".

So yes, I think a lot of people would agree with the headline here, but it's not a panacea for the incarceration rate of the US.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#103

Post by bdamm »

Chris2048 wrote: post #86
aaomidi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

You would trust the state to decide if a sexual predators is safe to teach your children?

The thing is... who else would decide? Isn't it the function of the state to make decisions based on information that is not available to the general public?

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#104

Post by dominotw »

aaomidi wrote: post #54
cubano wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

> 2. Yes I'm fine with sexual predators living in the same building as me. Teaching my children. And being my co-worker. For the same aforementioned reasons.

I am parent and I understand what you mean here and It makes complete sense to me. But I am having a little hard time with this, some part of my brain just wont' accept it.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#105

Post by ralmidani »

Releasing people convicted of non-violent drug offenses is not enough; it’s important that we provide a smooth ramp to re-join society.

We should wipe their records clean, train them in useful, employable skills, and help them find decent jobs. (Edit: this is the bare minimum; I don’t want to get into direct monetary compensation, even though I think it’s worth considering.)

I would imagine a lot of people formerly-incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses are (rightfully) resentful of society, and we should give them an alternative to committing crimes in order to survive.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#106

Post by mrmuagi »

offtop5 wrote: post #49

Society needs to have something between jaywalking and attempted murder. Right now if you fish without a permit in the wrong place you're a felon and you will never be able to get a decent job for the rest of your life. The entire reason the American criminal justice system is like this, at its core is to punish minority groups. I don't ever see this changing, and it's a big part of why I want to make an exit by 40.…

> fish without a permit in the wrong place

Are these ecological concerns, ie. protected species or preventing over fishing, or trespassing concerns? I tried searching 'fishing' + 'felon' and I couldn't whip up any laws.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#107

Post by Der_Einzige »

quotemstr wrote: post #13
oytis wrote: post #5

A study (if it's a real study) can't tell you what should be done, it should give you new knowledge about the state of affairs. (while I agree that drug offense should be decriminalized).

Exactly. Any form of science cannot tell us what should or should not be done. Science informs our choices. It doesn't make them.

How the heck is this comment downvoted? The is-ought gap is unpopular here?

HNs username must be Sam Harrises biggest fans...

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#108

Post by RHSeeger »

aaomidi wrote: post #54
cubano wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

> What someone did in the past shouldn't matter to anyone if that person has been rehabilitated.

That's just it though. The US prison systems, as a general rule, don't rehabilitate; they punish. There is no reason to trust that a person who spent time in prison is more safe after than they were before. In many cases, it's common for people to become more dangerous because of stay in prison.

We need to work towards the prisons rehabilitating before we can trust the people coming out of them are "safe" (understand that a lot of people that get sent to prison _are_ safe... the term has a vague meaning the way I'm using it).

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#109

Post by leetcrew »

SubuSS wrote: post #87
iridium_core wrote: post #10

Just legalise all drugs and let the free market decide. We could create innovative new substances which are safer and less socially damaging, compared to the plants and fermented liquids we happen to have stumbled upon millenia ago.

What do you think should be the government's role in protecting the gullible and easily seduced? Most of these drug laws are about this in essence: We are fast approaching a world where low level labor becomes more and more superflous. This is going to mean that there will be a growing portion of humanity on welfare in essence. How do you see that working out for humanity in a world with fully legal free access drugs…

> What do you think should be the government's role in protecting the gullible and easily seduced?

it could start by being a trustworthy source of information.

> Most of these drug laws are about this in essence: We are fast approaching a world where low level labor becomes more and more superflous. This is going to mean that there will be a growing portion of humanity on welfare in essence. How do you see that working out for humanity in a world with fully legal free access drugs?

this strikes me as a particularly odd argument. if they weren't doing anything productive to begin with, why care if they get high?

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#110

Post by njovin »

DaedPsyker wrote: post #99
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

Why does it need to be just programming? I don't understand this attitude, whether in schools or jail, program, program, program. I program too, its my job so I get it provides a living but my God do we get myopic at times. Other careers, good ones too are out there.

"Programming" in this context refers to having rehabilitation programs in place for prisoners, not computer programming.
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