Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 133 posts

Re: Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

#101

Post by me_me_me »

nabla9 wrote: post #42

Bitcoin speculation is an almost pure Keynesian beauty contest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_beauty_contest As long as most people think everyone else thinks BTC is the prettiest girl, it can have substantial value and the sky is the limit. It's a pure speculation asset. You don't need bitcoins to pay taxes. The value has a very weak link anchored to anything in the real economy (limited number of coins an…

BTC is a value store.

You can use it to exchange large values without traditional middleman.

Saying that BTC is just a hash, a virtual nothing and it has no intrinsic value is silly. Its not a tulip bulb.

Talking about pretty things, how come nobody gets railed up when a painting gets sold for millions and its a single color modernistic piece? Its literally just a hearsay that it has any value and no function apart from being expensive firestarter.

Bitcoin costs money to mine like it take money to mine gold. So there is 'work' involved creating it. It has built in mechanism for fighing inflation (finite source), and security for exchanging it. Try to liquidate 100k of gold.

Also its funny to me how people claim btc has no real value when over 20% of USD were printed last year. Out of thin air. Its all about confidence of people using it. If people were confident tulip bulbs have value of 100m per one we would be trading them to this day no matter how usless they are.

Re: Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

#102

Post by alwillis »

thegreatpeter wrote: post #90
cableshaft wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only lost if they sell it now. If they're not planning to sell for a couple of years when they invested then it doesn't matter that it dropped >20% in the last 48 hours. I've been through this rodeo twice before, I've been checking the price regularly since at least 2014. I haven't lost any money because I didn't sell during downturns (although it's been tempting to do so for sure). It's hard to say for sure if…

It's only annoying b/c you're riding the train and hope it hits whatever # it takes you to sell. That's what's happening right now. It hit a number and folks are selling. For every seller at 40k, there's a buyer. That sucks for those who got caught up in it. Bitcoin won't magically "stabilize" if it hits 50k/100k/1m, it will crash, just like its doing now. It will make a small group of people very wealthy on the loss…

Bitcoin won't magically "stabilize" if it hits 50k/100k/1m, it will crash, just like its doing now…

This isn't a crash. 10-15% corrections are normal and to be expected. There's always resistance at round number milestones—$20,000 then $30,000 and now $40,000.

In the not too distant future, $40,000 will look quaint.

Re: Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

#103

Post by nabla9 »

me_me_me wrote: post #101
nabla9 wrote: post #42

Bitcoin speculation is an almost pure Keynesian beauty contest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_beauty_contest As long as most people think everyone else thinks BTC is the prettiest girl, it can have substantial value and the sky is the limit. It's a pure speculation asset. You don't need bitcoins to pay taxes. The value has a very weak link anchored to anything in the real economy (limited number of coins an…

BTC is a value store. You can use it to exchange large values without traditional middleman. Saying that BTC is just a hash, a virtual nothing and it has no intrinsic value is silly. Its not a tulip bulb. Talking about pretty things, how come nobody gets railed up when a painting gets sold for millions and its a single color modernistic piece? Its literally just a hearsay that it has any value and no function apart f…

All assets have value store abilities. BTC is arguably bad value store. Value changes too much. When you need to withdraw the money you can lose or wing big.

TIPS (Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities) are good value store. You neither lose nor gain.

Re: Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

#104

Post by bena »

vsareto wrote: post #44
bena wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's good advice for investing in general.

It's not really though. That amount of risk aversion would keep people out of the market who would be better served by keeping it in a lazy portfolio for extended amounts of time.

So, it's not money they're counting on. If they lose it, it won't collapse their life.

There's a difference between "would like to not lose" and "can't lose". I would like to not lose my investments. I can't lose rent.

Re: Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

#105

Post by trident5000 »

grey-area wrote: post #97
trident5000 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres a lot of inaccuracies in here and it just kind of looks like things being thrown at a wall and hoping they stick. For instance front running is done by HFT in the equity markets so I see a double standard there. "exchanges lying about transactions" - what? 51% attack by miners, do you actually know what that is? What the impact is and how much it would cost to carry and sustain that? Nursie: Oh sure, I thought…

While you could argue with some specific points I'm sure, this was just a laundry list off the top of my head of reasons why btc is not some inert commodity which can't possibly allow malpractice - the bitcoin ecosystem is overflowing with bad actors and shady companies all trying to profit from the goldrush, from mtgox in the past to bitfinex now. I agree there are bad actors all over finance, which is precisely why…

All Im going to say is that quite a few heavyweights disagree with you both on the tech and investing front. I disagree with you as well. I think btc is a store of value. At the end of the day its going to be up to the individual.

Re: Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

#106

Post by SilasX »

cableshaft wrote: post #10

This is just: "Don't invest what you aren't prepared to lose," which has been the advice for Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies for a decade at this point. The headline makes it sound like they're threatening legal action or some sort of regulation, at least to me.

Anecdote: my credit union[1] went beyond caution and threatened to close down my account if I interacted with a crypto exchange. From a secured message in June 2017:

>>A transaction has posted to your account involving CoinBase.com (Bitcoin)[2]. Please be advised that in an effort to protect your credit union and all our members, A+FCU does not allow transactions involving CoinBase or any virtual currency. If you attempt to conduct any future transactions involving virtual currency, your account may be subject to closure.

>>Some of the reasons A+FCU has chosen to refuse virtual currency transactions are: - Virtual currencies have a higher risk for fraud. -Virtual currencies have no consumer protections. -Virtual currencies are not backed by a government or central bank. -Virtual currencies are targets for hackers, who have been able to breach sophisticated security systems in order to steal funds. -Virtual currencies can cost you more to use than credit cards or even regular cash once you take exchange rate issues into consideration.

>>For more information regarding virtual currency, please refer to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) website at cfpb.gov or the National Credit Union Association (NCUA) website at ncua.gov.

>>If you have any questions regarding this matter, please contact us.

[1] A+ Federal Credit Union, yes, their official name has a plus symbol in it

[2] I never ended up using Coinbase, for unrelated reasons.

Re: Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

#107

Post by cableshaft »

thegreatpeter wrote: post #90
cableshaft wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only lost if they sell it now. If they're not planning to sell for a couple of years when they invested then it doesn't matter that it dropped >20% in the last 48 hours. I've been through this rodeo twice before, I've been checking the price regularly since at least 2014. I haven't lost any money because I didn't sell during downturns (although it's been tempting to do so for sure). It's hard to say for sure if…

It's only annoying b/c you're riding the train and hope it hits whatever # it takes you to sell. That's what's happening right now. It hit a number and folks are selling. For every seller at 40k, there's a buyer. That sucks for those who got caught up in it. Bitcoin won't magically "stabilize" if it hits 50k/100k/1m, it will crash, just like its doing now. It will make a small group of people very wealthy on the loss…

My number was a bit higher for when I was planning to sell a substantial portion, and yes that is part of the reason I am annoyed.

I was hoping it would reach that point 2-3 years ago, so even though I do think it's more natural we see corrections such as this, I just can't help but feel a little impatient, I'm human.

I know there's no guarantee it would even get up as high as it is now, and I'm actually surprised it shot up so much this year after being at $3,500 a bit more than a year ago, but oh well.

Bitcoin would have to basically crater into the ground for me to actually get to the point where I lost money. I bought most of what I have several years ago, and only get little slivers of it now, small enough I don't notice it leaving my paycheck. I spend less on it every month than I spend on takeout in a week, and I don't get much takeout.

Re: Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

#108

Post by trident5000 »

thegreatpeter wrote: post #91
trident5000 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres a lot of inaccuracies in here and it just kind of looks like things being thrown at a wall and hoping they stick. For instance front running is done by HFT in the equity markets so I see a double standard there. "exchanges lying about transactions" - what? 51% attack by miners, do you actually know what that is? What the impact is and how much it would cost to carry and sustain that? Nursie: Oh sure, I thought…

Volumes are constantly faked on exchanges in an effort to make it look like there's demand for a higher price.

Depends what exchanges. Most fake volume occurs outside the 10 largest exchanges by userbase. Coinbase, Gemini, Bitstamp, Binance, etc are unlikely reporting inaccurate volume. Volume aggregators like CMC, Coingeko, and Messari have mostly kicked out suspects.

Re: Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

#109

Post by cryptopia »

afavour wrote: post #68
cryptopia wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Betting 1000$ is not a crazy risk.

Depends how much spare money you have.

If you don't live in the 3rd world, there is in any case a high likelihood that you can earn it back. It is on the scale of a months salary, not years.

Re: Bitcoin: Be prepared to lose all your money, FCA warns consumers

#110

Post by rootsudo »

agumonkey wrote: post #47
tebbers wrote: post #40

In London they are advertising bitcoin on the side of buses and in the Underground with the slogan 'when you see bitcoin on the side of a bus, it's time to buy'. I thought that was outrageous and actually was a sign to sell. I mentioned this to a foreign exchange trader friend and we even finished each other's sentence with the above!

It's a sad possibility that people are actively getting newcomers to join the game at the worst of times.

Or the best!
Post reply on HN