Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters • Hacker News Board

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#101

Post by throwaway346434 » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 7:43 AM UTC

rychco wrote: post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

This event is highly comparable to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch

- Attempted coup - Radicalized and misinformed supporters (majority) with an extremist, armed element (minority) - Extremely dangerous moment for free and fair elections in the west

What would the world have looked like if in 1923, the disaffected germans who took part in that were identified en masse; and serious efforts were made to re-integrate them to society while addressing the systemic issues they faced?

Instead, we ended up doing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification several years later after a lot of death.

I think there is a very good argument for identification and holding people to account. There also needs to be very, very robust adherence to due process - AI identification is not proof, and a suitable alibi should be step 1 in invalidating it.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#102

Post by tastroder » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 7:44 AM UTC

siruncledrew wrote: post #84

rychco wrote: post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

With Clearview's history in mind, would people rather live in world with or without facial recognition being used in public? What are the bounds for such technology and/or companies like Clearview? Are there quality of life differences in places where facial recognition crime technology is used vs not used?

Still without honestly. Relative OSINT laypersons on different social media seem to have little problem identifying terrorists without facial recognition. The fact that they publicised their own multi-angle, high resolution video surveillance in real time seems to help.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#103

Post by handmodel » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 7:45 AM UTC

newguy1234 wrote: post #90

handmodel wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They tried to destroy the Capitol and capture elected officials. If you don't arrest them now then there will just be even more violent MAGA riots in the immediate future.

How long are we going to lock them up? How many people are we going to lock up? My understanding was that there was 100k+ people in attendance at this rally and thousands of people were in the capitol building itself.

No one is suggesting you arrest those who stayed outside. You arrest however many you can find who blew past doors/security or took stuff. Probably 500.

At the next Trump rally of 100k everyone will know not to break the law. It is pretty simple.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#104

Post by zozbot234 » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 7:48 AM UTC

throwaway346434 wrote: post #101

rychco wrote: post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

This event is highly comparable to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch - Attempted coup - Radicalized and misinformed supporters (majority) with an extremist, armed element (minority) - Extremely dangerous moment for free and fair elections in the west What would the world have looked like if in 1923, the disaffected germans who took part in that were identified en masse; and serious efforts were made to r…

The sad thing is precisely that no-one cares about "re-integrating" proponents of right-leaning views "to society". Everyone is talking about forcibly deplatforming them all out of society which, even if successful, will only make them far more marginalized and far more open to dangerous, violent extremism. Is this really what we need? We've had enough divisiveness already, so why not try a more constructive approach?

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#105

Post by paganel » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 7:48 AM UTC

walls wrote: post #54

jonas21 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel like you're supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition in this case?

Identifying terrorists is a positive outcome.

These were not “terrorists”, you can call them insurrectionists, mob, angry horde or anything of the sorts, but “terror” was no-where to be found among their motives. Or maybe I’m wrong and they did want to terrorize people (like ISIS set out to do), in which case some sources will help.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#106

Post by idiocrat » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 7:56 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #105

walls wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Identifying terrorists is a positive outcome.

These were not “terrorists”, you can call them insurrectionists, mob, angry horde or anything of the sorts, but “terror” was no-where to be found among their motives. Or maybe I’m wrong and they did want to terrorize people (like ISIS set out to do), in which case some sources will help.

Does not matter, in any case -- straight into reeducation camps.

God Bless the Holy AI.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#107

Post by idiocrat » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:00 AM UTC

newguy1234 wrote: post #94

rychco wrote: post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

Agree. This is a huge slippery slope.

Hopefully there will be an AI Judge soon, so we do not need to worry about the ethics.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#108

Post by ianai » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:03 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #104

throwaway346434 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This event is highly comparable to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch - Attempted coup - Radicalized and misinformed supporters (majority) with an extremist, armed element (minority) - Extremely dangerous moment for free and fair elections in the west What would the world have looked like if in 1923, the disaffected germans who took part in that were identified en masse; and serious efforts were made to r…

The sad thing is precisely that no-one cares about "re-integrating" proponents of right-leaning views "to society". Everyone is talking about forcibly deplatforming them all out of society which, even if successful, will only make them far more marginalized and far more open to dangerous, violent extremism. Is this really what we need? We've had enough divisiveness already, so why not try a more constructive approach…

That is decidedly opposite of how I see the immediate political inertia. It might help to revisit previous times the democrats took over all three legislative branches. They’re not unified ever and dissent is assured. Meaning there are conservative wings which will welcome and work with the far right even after this. If you’re referencing the deplatforming going on from corporate entities that’s a whole another phenomenon and legally forced.

Edit-if you’re referencing just how people treat one another 1-1 in culture, well, the forever trumpers just need to learn to treat people like people again. Apologizing helps, but simply being friendly and polite goes a long way.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#109

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:03 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #104

throwaway346434 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This event is highly comparable to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch - Attempted coup - Radicalized and misinformed supporters (majority) with an extremist, armed element (minority) - Extremely dangerous moment for free and fair elections in the west What would the world have looked like if in 1923, the disaffected germans who took part in that were identified en masse; and serious efforts were made to r…

The sad thing is precisely that no-one cares about "re-integrating" proponents of right-leaning views "to society". Everyone is talking about forcibly deplatforming them all out of society which, even if successful, will only make them far more marginalized and far more open to dangerous, violent extremism. Is this really what we need? We've had enough divisiveness already, so why not try a more constructive approach…

[deleted]

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#110

Post by EVdotIO » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:14 AM UTC

newguy1234 wrote: post #90

handmodel wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They tried to destroy the Capitol and capture elected officials. If you don't arrest them now then there will just be even more violent MAGA riots in the immediate future.

How long are we going to lock them up? How many people are we going to lock up? My understanding was that there was 100k+ people in attendance at this rally and thousands of people were in the capitol building itself.

I've got an idea, you take people with unapproved ideologies or from communities that tend to have these people and put them in reeducation facilities. Because this is all expensive to do, they will need to work as well.

Sarcasm aside, we are moving quickly to a straight up authoritarian apparatus of state sanctioned discourse enforced by a handful of corporations. This will be used against _anything_ that challenges those in power or goes against the approved narrative. For those cheering this on, realize this will applied to you in one form or another with no recourse. Here are a few scenarios off the top of my head: being a pacifist or home schooling advocate, posting on social media something tacky like "Prominent figure X is a fat idiot", or personal medical decisions having a direct impact on your ability to: travel, access jobs, housing and financial systems.