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Europe: close to power grid blackout (49,74Hz power line frequency)

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Re: Europe: close to power grid blackout (49,74Hz power line frequency)

#101
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should at least be heat pumps...

heat pump are highly inefficient if outside temp gets below ~5 degC and that's what happening right now on most of Europe ( incl. southern europe, I saw spain mentionned here ... )

Not less efficient than just using electricity. At -20C you get 1:1 electricity to heat.

Re: Europe: close to power grid blackout (49,74Hz power line frequency)

#102
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet governments insist newbuilds to be on electric heating Not only that, but they insist that almost all vehicle transportation should be electric in maximum 10-15 years.

Not quite, they’re insisting all all new vehicles will be electric. Even at that point it’ll still be decades before electric vehicles make up the majority of road traffic.

Do people really keep their vehicles for decades?

Re: Europe: close to power grid blackout (49,74Hz power line frequency)

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want people to use gas cars and gas-powered boilers to heat their home? Or should we make that more expensive as well so we can make sure more people spend more time with heating off in the winter?

Isn't a gas-powered heater more efficient than an electric heater powered by an LNG plant? Electric heating is pretty ineffective, although heat pumps can work well.

It might be, but it's also depleting a natural resource that refills _really_ slowly. Electricity at least can be (though is often not) generated from resources that do renew, like solar and wind energy.

Re: Europe: close to power grid blackout (49,74Hz power line frequency)

#104
There is a very nice ongoing effort at the University of Tennessee Knoxville to monitor the US power grid. http://fnetpublic.utk.edu/

The video is 10 years old, but depicts a box with GPS timekeeping, and sampling the normal outlet, with Ethernet to report to the server. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vt2OlVoBJc

One of the best real time views, is this view of the phase across the US. http://fnetpublic.utk.edu/anglecontour.html

Re: Europe: close to power grid blackout (49,74Hz power line frequency)

#105
post #53

Time to start deploying big batteries across the grid at substations. A shipping container here and there would work wonders.

I want to get rooftop solar and a battery pack for my house. But I really don't want to a lithium battery attached to my house. I feel like there'd be a good business in selling battery 'space' in a big fire proof box down the street that I could then offset my meter against. Wouldn't even need to be in my street if I could get the offset.

Why does it have to be lithium technology? The reason electric cars use it is because of energy density (weight savings). For home use, weight is completely irrelevant. You could use much safer lead acid batteries (sealed/AGM) and rig your own inverter setup. This is also a lot easier to maintain over time, as you can scale up/down and swap individual batteries as required.

Re: Europe: close to power grid blackout (49,74Hz power line frequency)

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite, they’re insisting all all new vehicles will be electric. Even at that point it’ll still be decades before electric vehicles make up the majority of road traffic.

Do people really keep their vehicles for decades?

It doesn't really matter if people keep their vehicle for decades, because people usually sell their old vehicles for use by others when they get a new (to them) vehicle.

What you want to know is the average life of a vehicle (or average age of the fleet), not the average period of ownership.

I'm sure that varies by country; IIRC Germany has punative taxes on registering old cars, so their average age should be a lot less than in the US where registration tax usually is based on value, so goes down as the vehicle ages. I seem to recall average fleet age of about 20 years in the US.

Re: Europe: close to power grid blackout (49,74Hz power line frequency)

#107
post #74

Why aren't power outages in California and Europe partly due to the adoption of solar and wind?

That would be politically inconvenient.

It is unfortunately true that intermittent sources of power generation subtract from grid stability. Texas (ERCOT region) had a huge incident back in 2019 with rates skyrocketing to $9/KWh for over 90 minutes. Many attributed this to an over-reliance on wind generation.

Re: Europe: close to power grid blackout (49,74Hz power line frequency)

#108
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a tropical climate so I'm completely clueless on heating systems but has municipal steam heating been completely abandoned? It seems more efficient than both individual gas or electric heaters once you take conversion loses into account

Would say that almost all cities / larger towns in Sweden has municipal heating via hot water. And acc. to wikipedia around half of all housing units in Denmark, Sweden and Finland has municipal heating.

Yes, steam isn't used anymore, it's too inefficient. The trend is towards lower temperatures in the district heating.

Re: Europe: close to power grid blackout (49,74Hz power line frequency)

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fascinating to me. What is the mechanism by which this happens? The added load causes an average slow down across the population of actual spinning generator bits?

That's exactly right. Extra electrical draw on the grid (or a loss of electrical production elsewhere) causes the turbines in power plants to physically spin slower due to increase load on each turbine. An (imperfect) analogy would be if you and a friend were biking up a hill on a tandem bike. If a third person hopped on the handle bars (or your friend stopped pedaling) the bike's wheels would slow down, assuming you…

Tangentially (or maybe tandemially :) this illustrates the problem of synchronizing an e.g. solar power unit delivering to the net. The person jumping on a multicycle in speed must synchronize their feet to the rotating pedals to actually add power.
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