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Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

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Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#101

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

tschwimmer wrote: post #30
notatoad wrote: post #2

per wikipedia, it looks like amazon's current fleet is 66 aircraft, and prior to this news had already ordered 15 additional 767-300ER. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Air

As the other poster noted, these are the first outright purchases of planes, vs previous planes were leased from aircraft leasing companies. My understanding is that when you lease, the leasing company handles all the maintenance and crewing and you only specify the routings. Obviously when you buy planes, you're responsible for everything yourself. You can however contract out maintenance and crewing to other contra…

That's not how this sort of leasing generally works, it's more of a financial transaction, like financing a car.

Airlines are more likely to buy packages of service from manufacturers (especially engines) and big service providers if they don't have enough scale or experience to do their own maintenance, regardless of how it was paid for.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#102

Post by cromka »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #95
amelius wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> still shitiest airliner out there Yet Ryanair is rated as a seven-star airline for safety; it has a fatality-free record since it was started. https://www.airlineratings.com/news/ryanair-soars-seven-star...

You've clearly never flown with them.

Right, because only those why fly them can possibly know how often they fall from the sky?

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#103

Post by jerrysievert »

alanbernstein wrote: post #59
fumar wrote: post #23

Do customers gain from Amazon's increased footprint? They are like a super organism growing and controlling distribution paths. Have there been other companies like Amazon in capitalist history? Google?

Sears

had sears embraced the internet like amazon did, they'd likely still be a powerhouse.

between their ubiquitous catalogs, trusted brands, huge retail footprint, and huge variety of products (there are tons of craftsman houses in Portland), they had a very large market.

it was sad to see what happened to them.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#104

Post by throwaway201103 »

grogenaut wrote: post #32
moltar wrote: post #21

I predicted in October of 2018 [1], that in 3 years Amazon will start flying freight directly from China to US fulfillment centers and cut out the middlemen (FBA sellers). Since then Amazon has been on-boarding sellers in China at a rapid pace. - [1] https://www.scaleleap.com/zine/just-in-time-air/

To me in 2014 it was really dumb that Chinese sellers were using USA middlemen to get on Amazon instead of just directly selling on Amazon. In general it seems dumb that any manufacturer isn't just selling direct to consumer if they have a consumer finished product on Amazon. However one insight into the reason is embedded in this anecdote: My friend was asked by a Chinese supplier to sell a thing on Amazon. But the…

Being a small-scale online reseller of someone else's product has always been risky. Low barriers to entry, no such thing as a regional territory, no motive for the manufacturer to protect or reward you over anyone else.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#105

Post by throwaway201103 »

verhey wrote: post #66
simonh wrote: post #19

This reminds me of when Ryanair bought 100 Boeing 737-800 aircraft in 2002 after 9/11 hammered the airline industry[0], a very bold forward looking move. It was good for Ryanair and for Boeing. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2002/jan/24/theairlinei...

Boeing isn't really gaining much from this. The 767s Amazon is acquiring are ex-Westjet (previously Qantas) and Delta passenger aircraft, and likely last saw a Boeing factory somewhere around 15-25 years ago. That said, Alaska just put in another order for MAXes, and Ryanair is buying more as well. Part of why these 767s were available for Amazon to purchase at all were due to the industry model shifting and airlines…

A MAX will certainly crash again, as all aircraft types occasionally do. Whether this shakes public confidence will be how soon it happens, and (secondarily) for what reason.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#106

Post by dehrmann »

dpifke wrote: post #96
lawguy wrote: post #84

Amazon's air safety record is less than stellar. Prime Air had a fatal 767 incident in early 2019. https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/AA... In the accident flight, the first officer (FO) inadvertently activated the "go around" mode during landing, then, in surprise, pushed the airplane into the ground. > According to one check airman at [FO's previous airline], the FO could explain things well…

Thanks for the link to this. The full report (PDF) makes for interesting reading: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/... Some additional damning quotes: Another check airman at Mesa said the FO’s stick and rudder skills were weak, and he also struggled with basic flight management system tasks. This check airman described the FO’s piloting performance as among the worst he had ever seen and n…

Mesa, like the airline American and United use as a regional carrier?

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#107

Post by dehrmann »

kd913 wrote: post #11

I remember watching a video from Wendover Production talking about the decline of 747 and A380s mainly due to a lack of guaranteed passengers to fill the plane routes in both directions. Exceptions being some airlines which are able to operate hub and spoke models and where fuel is cheap like the middle east airlines. Wouldn't these types of planes be more suitable for a role in logistics which can benefit the greate…

> where fuel is cheap like the middle east airlines.

They're also in a strategically good location for connecting Europe to Australia and North America to Africa and India.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#108

Post by throwaway201103 »

RyJones wrote: post #54
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #3

It's difficult to really get a grasp on Amazon's size but it was a bit eye opening the other day when I was driving down a rural road up in the mountains and passed by an Amazon delivery van. I would have assumed for such a remote location that they'd turn their packages over to the post office to deliver but apparently their delivery service is large enough now to service even the very rural areas.

From another angle, here in the Seattle area, I often see USPS trucks delivering Amazon packages on Sunday.

Yeah where I live anything I order from Amazon comes via a third-party courier. Never seen an Amazon van in my neighborhood.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#109

Post by throwaway201103 »

dpifke wrote: post #96
lawguy wrote: post #84

Amazon's air safety record is less than stellar. Prime Air had a fatal 767 incident in early 2019. https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/AA... In the accident flight, the first officer (FO) inadvertently activated the "go around" mode during landing, then, in surprise, pushed the airplane into the ground. > According to one check airman at [FO's previous airline], the FO could explain things well…

Thanks for the link to this. The full report (PDF) makes for interesting reading: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/... Some additional damning quotes: Another check airman at Mesa said the FO’s stick and rudder skills were weak, and he also struggled with basic flight management system tasks. This check airman described the FO’s piloting performance as among the worst he had ever seen and n…

Also, the FO was black, and ticked the quota goals at his employers.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#110

Post by Aperocky »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #93
contingencies wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is likely a net good for the consumer, since it nominally lowers costs, increases reliability, and reduces time to delivery. However, there is an antitrust risk of monopolization. It's a case in which Amazon, the producer and the consumer have aligned interests, until Amazon turns around and screws everyone who have become dependent. Undercapitalized niche middle men still running on ancient oasis merchant middl…

Good for US consumers, bad for US manufacturers.

There are no US manufacturers for most of the stuff on Amazon though.

Cheaper consumer good manufacturing in the US is gone for good.

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