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FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

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Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#101

Post by wiredfool »

sjg007 wrote: post #24

I thought there were tax treaties, basically you don't pay taxes on the first $100k if you paid into the national tax system of the country you are in. I can imagine FICA taxes though might be difficult. Maybe US social security would deny benefits if you claimed them without any contributions and residence abroad.

There are actually two exclusions for countries on the treaty list, one is the first ~100k of income, and the other is a tax credit for taxes paid in the other country.

So, if you happen to be an expat in a higher tax country (which is certainly Europe), then you won't owe taxes in the US. You still have to file, which can cost $500 for an accountant to make sure everything is correct, but owing taxes isn't really an issue.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#102

Post by whynotminot »

sdenton4 wrote: post #85
Digit-Al wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A surprising number of Americans seem to think it's reasonable to tax non-residents, so such legislation may be hard to get passed. So let's get this straight. On one side you have Americans who think it's reasonable to tax people who don't live in the country and thus don't use any of the services that tax pays for and then on the other side you have Americans who believe that all tax is theft under the threat of…

The core psychology of populist American politics is "F$ck you, got mine." Taxing other people is great, putting other people's kids in cages is ok, cutting off University funding is fine once you've gotten yours, etc...

Or, “I never got mine so why should you get yours.”

Either way, definitely an “FU” mindset.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#103

Post by dunmalg »

elgatonegro wrote: post #65
nvarsj wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying it's all okay as long as you remain a permanent employee your entire life with a company owned pension plan? Is that a joke? What if you want to buy property, invest in a business, open up a private retirement fund, or a million other things. All of these are a massive land mine for any American living abroad. On top of that you have things like FACTA that affects everyone. This kind of stuff has neg…

Buying property doesn't expose you to GILTI/transition taxes. Neither does investing in a business. You just have to pay taxes on income derived from that business, as normal. FATCA can be completely nullified by not maintaining foreign bank accounts. Keep your money in the US, problem solved. Maybe that's not an option for everyone but it's still an option.

Not maintaining a foreign bank account is a non-trivial thing, equivalent to saying "just pay for everything in cash". In many European countries pretty much all routine bill payments are handled by direct bank transfer between local banks. The US banking system doesn't interface with this system.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#104

Post by thesz »

koluna wrote: post #90

> countless accidental [...] Linked article says a bit more than 3,000 around the world. So, 0.001%. Article content is clickbait. Basically, a very small part of the population complains about something that others work decades on.

Your math is wrong. The one thousandth of percent is for whole US population. For these who experience problems abroad the percentage must be much higher because, frankly, most of these with problems do not live in US and their count is much smaller.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#106

Post by ipnon »

sailingparrot wrote: post #87
eralps wrote: post #29

I am a green card applicant basically waiting to become a US citizen in the next 5 - 10 years. Comments are mostly blaming the person for not renouncing it but is renouncing really necessary? If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen? This has been a scary scenario for a long time for me and I don't think I would be able to pay tax to the US with my in…

> If I basically stop being a citizen of the US by moving to another country why do I need to continue paying for it? You don't "stop" being a citizen. Part of the process to apply for citizenship is education about what becoming a citizen means through the civics test, and it should be very clear to you that this is not meant to be just a convenient thing that you do as a formality. Citizenship comes with rights but…

Renouncing your US citizenship isn't a stop?

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#107

Post by throwawayiionqz »

happynacho wrote: post #95

I would love if there was an option to buy their citizenship for that $2350 fee, hell even double would be a no-brainer. Strange how some people want to get rid of it and how others want it no matter what.

Not so strange after you experience it. Walk into a bank to open an account where to receive your salary. In no time after mentioning your US citizenship, you are shown the exit door. Try every bank until you eventually lie about it as the only way go on with your life.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#108

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

mmaunder wrote: post #56

How do you not know that you’re a US citizen? Surely that’s an edge case? The price of renouncing your US citizenship went from around $500 to just under $3000, so the key issue seems to be to make renouncing more accessible. If filing IRS paperwork no matter where you reside seems an onerous obligation for a citizen, try compulsory military service or currency export controls, both of which the US does not have.

"Selective Service" is a form of conscription in the US, but is not mandatory routine military service.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#109

Post by michaelt »

ttul wrote: post #5

Why it must cost over $2,000 to give up something that others spend much more trying to acquire is a total mystery. Surely it does not cost $2,000 to make a note of someone’s ex-citizenship.

It's simple.

You may think politicians don't give a shit about voters, but they give even less of a shit about non-voters. Just look at the treatment of illegal immigrants or Iraqi civilians.

Anyone giving up their citizenship will be unable to vote at the next election - making them a non-voter. As such, in the eyes of senators they're no more important than the people that Academi mercenaries kill with impunity. Charging them $2000 is nothing.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#110

Post by mattkrause »

zajio1am wrote: post #46
eralps wrote: post #29

I am a green card applicant basically waiting to become a US citizen in the next 5 - 10 years. Comments are mostly blaming the person for not renouncing it but is renouncing really necessary? If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen? This has been a scary scenario for a long time for me and I don't think I would be able to pay tax to the US with my in…

> If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen? You have a benefit of a right to return to the country of your citizenship and to live there. You also still could vote in a country of your citizenship even if living outside (not sure how that fit in US federal setup).

Consular assistance too.
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