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EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

bbc.com

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Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#101

Post by Veedrac »

ericra wrote: post #71

[Original Source Press Release]( https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_... ) I found this bit promising: "Concretely, the Digital Markets Act will: - Prohibit a number of practices which are clearly unfair, such as blocking users from un-installing any pre-installed software or apps; " I'm curious about what other "clearly unfair" practices they are referring tho, but this alone could have impli…

Bundling is explicitly allowed by the regulation. Some examples of other ‘clearly unfair’ practices are restricting the use of third-party software or stores, or preventing them from accessing them other than from the company's channels.

The full proposal is here: https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/proposal-regulati...

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#102

Post by buisi »

jsmith45 wrote: post #85
FleaFlicker99 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> must prioritise complaints raised by "trusted flaggers" That's the real concern here. Speech must be handled very carefully, but now we're elevating some specific people to be 'more equal' than others? Who are these people, and why do they get more say? I can see that opening a can of worms. I don't live in the EU, but just like that well intentioned but shortsighted cookie law, the rest of us will have to deal wit…

The purpose of this is to ensure that organizations like the European equivalents of RIAA and MPAA have basically one click disable buttons (not strictly required, but how most sites will implement it) for content they claim infringes their copyrights, or is otherwise illegal. This would also be used by organizations that track down child porn etc. As for who is a trusted flagger: "The status of trusted flaggers unde…

This makes it very difficult to host any sort of "borderline" content in the E.U. If someone decides they don't like your decision on a contentious matter, and a court agrees with them, you're the one who'll take the fall for making the wrong call.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#103

Post by 6510 »

DrNuke wrote: post #24

From the EU perspective, this is aimed at disentangling fundamental services for the general public from private corp monopolies. Good in principle, very difficult to implement?

It would be easier to throw away the code and have the EU create its own cloned services. I look at software as mostly prototyping. By now we've figured out that email is something we want. Buy some servers and create a mailbox for the citizens. Have an open source feature set. Let people make add-ons, migrate some of these into the default set. It will be hard to get in the way of it becoming something nice and useful.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#104

Post by avianlyric »

Veedrac wrote: post #88
throwaway894345 wrote: post #7

> The operators of online platforms - such as social media apps and video-sharing sites of any size - must prioritise complaints raised by "trusted flaggers", who have a track record of highlighting valid problems. Who determines which problems are valid? Unless I overlooked something, this article seems really vague. > Likewise, all online stores must be able to trace traders selling goods via their platforms, in ca…

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/proposal_for_a_re... --- Article 19, Trusted flaggers 2. The status of trusted flaggers under this Regulation shall be awarded, upon application by any entities, by the Digital Services Coordinator of the Member State in which the applicant is established, where the applicant has demonstrated to meet all of the following conditions: (a) it has particular expertise and compet…

Sounds like Trusted flaggers are expected to be social interest charities like Internet Watch Foundation.

https://www.iwf.org.uk/

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#105

Post by jimbob45 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #59
throwaway894345 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, movie and music ratings aren't censorship. Moreover, only broadcast television and radio are censored (perhaps because radio waves are a public platform?). I'm not going to argue that censoring broadcast is ideal or valid, but I'm certainly less sympathetic to the plight of massive media companies than I am to millions of private citizens.

> To be clear, movie and music ratings aren't censorship. To the extent they are incorporated with schemes that limit access to the rated content imposed by powerful entities outside of the transaction, they are part of schemes of censorship. (Public censorship schemes that incorporate movie ratings, and thus delegate to movie raters the role of public censor, are common.) > I'm not going to argue that censoring broa…

Censored for children only. I don’t think anyone over 18 is subject to the censorship. That is disregarding laws specifically targeting pornography, of course.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#106

Post by paddez »

jariel wrote: post #69
avianlyric wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents. Have you heard of laws and governments before? This is exactly what they do, it’s also why democracy is such a big thing. If you’re gonna give that much power to an organisation, you want to make sure you can change it if start going off the rails. > The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); It might not have “creat…

"do, it’s also why democracy is such a big thing" Voters of France and Netherlands strongly rejected the treaty upon which the EU derives is legitimacy. Referendums were cancelled elsewhere. Ursula von der Leyen did not receive any votes, she wasn't even part of the process, she was an unknown German figure until after the election, when she was plucked from obscurity by actors acting in total opacity, behind closed…

> Ursula von der Leyen did not receive any votes

She was nominated by the Council of Europe (comprised of the heads of state for each of the EU nations), and confirmed by the European Parliament (which represents the European electorate).

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#107

Post by buisi »

eznzt wrote: post #98
jsmith45 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No these are organizations that an EU government has granted special status to: "The status of trusted flaggers under this Regulation shall be awarded, upon application by any entities, by the Digital Services Coordinator of the Member State in which the applicant is established where the applicant has demonstrated to meet all of the following conditions: (a) it has particular expertise and competence for the purpose…

Oooof, I imagine an endless list of left-wing NGOs.

Right-wing ones too. Both factions of politics are likely to step in here.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#108

Post by jariel »

pmontra wrote: post #87
jariel wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"do, it’s also why democracy is such a big thing" Voters of France and Netherlands strongly rejected the treaty upon which the EU derives is legitimacy. Referendums were cancelled elsewhere. Ursula von der Leyen did not receive any votes, she wasn't even part of the process, she was an unknown German figure until after the election, when she was plucked from obscurity by actors acting in total opacity, behind closed…

The EU is currently based upon the Treaty of Lisbon [1] signed in 2007 after the referenda of 2005 for the new constitution (Spain yes, France and Netherlands nay) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon

Yes, exactly. Nations gave away sovereign, constitutional powers literally after their populations boldly rejected the terms, in a fair and open democratic processes.

Other European nations, verging on 'voting no' were denied the chance precisely because the EU apparatus knew what the outcome would be.

There's basically no defence of that issue, and the patronizing arguments defending 'indirect' nature of democracy of the EU wear thin - voters have no material impact on the EU, which is how it was designed, very much on purpose.

The limitation that MEPs have no ability to introduce legislation or frankly drive any of the real legislative process is by design.

It's mesmerizing to watch legions of young people defend an undemocratic system that their ancestors literally fought for 2000 years to overcome, with literally millions dead. 'Reason' lasted only one generation, before ostensibly well meaning actors took away the rights of the plebes before their eyes, and convinced them that it was in their best interest.

There is obvious need for reform, and if there was, I'll bet Norway and UK would be part of it, and possibly even Switzerland.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#109

Post by dragonwriter »

jimbob45 wrote: post #105
dragonwriter wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be clear, movie and music ratings aren't censorship. To the extent they are incorporated with schemes that limit access to the rated content imposed by powerful entities outside of the transaction, they are part of schemes of censorship. (Public censorship schemes that incorporate movie ratings, and thus delegate to movie raters the role of public censor, are common.) > I'm not going to argue that censoring broa…

Censored for children only. I don’t think anyone over 18 is subject to the censorship. That is disregarding laws specifically targeting pornography, of course.

Imposing a proof burden on someone to view content is a restriction of their freedom even if they meet the requirement and have access to the required proof.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#110

Post by nickpp »

baxtr wrote: post #75

Ok, I will probably get downvoted for this. But I will still speak my mind: I am an EU citizen and I don’t think that’s the right approach because it’s distracting from what really happened: We missed the big Internet bus because we were so much focused on keeping things the way they were. Now we try to regulate us out. It makes me unbelievably sad. And it continues. The car was invented here but it takes an Australi…

Another EU citizen here, resonating with your words. It seems that Europe has decided to stop evolving and just do anything to protect the status quo.

All these regulations just trying to keep those damn disruptors at bay. Innovation is forbidden here. But hey! It’s for our own good.

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