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An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

mattstoller.substack.com

101–110 of 113 posts

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#101
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know. I’m feeling the need for large gatekeepers especially in the media space. I have lost faith in the public’s ability to make reasoned decisions for themselves.

I feel like this approach addresses a symptom but not the root problem. How can people regain a shared truth and stop becoming so polarized while still prioritizing freedom of expression?

I feel like a gatekeeper provided experience will have a moderating influence that will bring people back to a shared narrative over time. Possibly a very long time.

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#102

I'm not sure who is benefitting those mega managers other than executives or shareholders. We need to find a way to discourage mega-mergers. Either through antitrust law or progressive taxation on mega mergers starting at few $1Bln. 1. The economy is a whole losses efficiency due to lack of competition. 2. Less competition for talent. 3. More fragile economy (e.g. too big to fail). https://www.economist.com/special-r…

0. Founders, non-executive employees, and even sometimes end-users can benefit, just as much or more than executives or shareholders.

1. Not really true in general, because the buyee often was not in direct competition with the buyer. In specifics, sure sometimes the buyee is bought and killed, and sure sometimes "build it (and compete)" was actually in consideration at buyer -- though as an aside if they did build it instead of buy it we'd still get complaints from other people on finding a way to discourage product expansion and vertical integration. One could also say here that by eliminating middlemen (if the buyer intends to integrate that is) efficiency is increased, but this is not necessarily general either.

2. Marginally less employer competition, and perhaps not even that, because under 0 we've got a group of beneficiaries who may now be able to form or fund new companies, in direct competition or not. Avoid static pie thinking. Related here is an opposing concern that preventing mergers can result in a lower cap on wages, though this is not general either. I do concede that if we expand the pool of employees beyond software engineers, some sort of layoff protection may be desirable, because technically and instantaneously yes the now-irrelevant laid off accountants for example at the buyee have a tighter market to compete in as buyer doesn't want them and their old job has vanished. (Though many layoff packages already implicitly do something like this, the net effect is to give the individual more time to find a role at a different firm or else retool because the market has reallocated the demand for their role.)

3. Being too big to fail isn't really related with the scope of a company's product catalog. Fragility is a big topic.

Rather than spouting my own ideological biases and principles I'd rather ask some numbers questions. Specifically what thresholds would you consider reasonable before introducing your discouragements/blockers. #2 seems most tractable to start with -- say the US has 5 million software engineers, Facebook has 50,000 of them, and wants to acquire another company with 15,000 software engineers. Is the shift above 1% of employees in the field to 1.3% objectionable? Or do we not worry until a single firm employs say 30% of the field? Is the relative increase of 0.3% too big a merger regardless of the starting point? Or is there even such a too-big relative size and we should just look at the final total? Should we count the total employees at each company, or rather subdivide even further taking into account sales, accountants, and perhaps even types of software engineers?

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#103
post #49
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we run the risk of creating separate product areas and none of them working well together or, have mandated open apis that _force_ products to integrate. That's what the web is today (mostly). Links, and embedable content (like frames). APIs and data. The reason companies don't do this - as demonstrated fairly recently by google with their removal of xmpp protocols from google chat - is that open apis prevent lock.…

Not apis, protocols preferably.

API and protocols can be used interchangably in this case.

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#104

I'm not sure who is benefitting those mega managers other than executives or shareholders. We need to find a way to discourage mega-mergers. Either through antitrust law or progressive taxation on mega mergers starting at few $1Bln. 1. The economy is a whole losses efficiency due to lack of competition. 2. Less competition for talent. 3. More fragile economy (e.g. too big to fail). https://www.economist.com/special-r…

What is the problem with the company’s owners being the largest beneficiaries in a transaction in which they are choosing to buy or sell their own assets?

1. Competition for the sake of competition is not an end in itself. Competition is a means to an end, not a promise or guarantee. See also: the T-Mobile and Sprint merger.

2. New businesses are started as new opportunities arise. Wherever a market inefficiency is perceived, there are people who seek to exploit this inefficiency for their own benefit. Even the businesses that fail employ some people for some time; it’s not important that the same businesses that exist today continue to exist in perpetuity, but that the business environment continues to encourage people to take new risks and start new ventures.

3. Stop bailing out failing businesses. Would it hurt the S&P 500 if a FAANG company filed for bankruptcy? Yes, but that’s irrelevant. Socializing losses only encourages more businesses to take on more risk than would normally be acceptable to them and their shareholders if they think there’s a good chance they’ll be bailed out by taxpayers. Sometimes businesses, even big businesses fail, and that’s part of the environment, not something to be prevented at all costs. The stock market is a reflection of market activity, it isn’t the market.

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#105
post #9

> it gave away its new product for no or low cost to existing clients, and bundled it with existing product lines. In a society with functional antitrust laws, such activity would be illegal. But alas. I find this statement highly suspect. What kind of world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas. I see Microsoft integrating Teams into their productivity product bundle as feature; not a bug. O…

Do'h! Realized I made a typo :')

> That modesty sound right, imho

Meant to say: "That doesn't sound right, imho"

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#106
post #41
post #9

> it gave away its new product for no or low cost to existing clients, and bundled it with existing product lines. In a society with functional antitrust laws, such activity would be illegal. But alas. I find this statement highly suspect. What kind of world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas. I see Microsoft integrating Teams into their productivity product bundle as feature; not a bug. O…

> we run the risk of creating separate product areas and none of them working well together or, have mandated open apis that _force_ products to integrate. That's what the web is today (mostly). Links, and embedable content (like frames). APIs and data. The reason companies don't do this - as demonstrated fairly recently by google with their removal of xmpp protocols from google chat - is that open apis prevent lock.…

> or, have mandated open apis that _force_ products to integrate.

Yep, I mostly agree. Except, defining APIs is pretty much the realm of software engineering more than regulations.

I mean, we don't want to have regulations that essentially say: "all companies selling platforms (god knows how we're going to accurately define what a platform is; let's ignore that for now) must support development against open apis such as HTML 5" and then realize that 5 years later nobody wants to write apps in HTML 5 but the shiny new thing called Flash that Adobe has developed. (My memory fails me; Flash is the hot new thing right? :P)

Anyways, it feels like society has reached a point where regulators need software skills if they're going to tackle societal impact of big tech. We need super smart folks from software _also_ become super smart folks in law and become members of congress. :D Or, maybe we need congress to sign up for #learntocode. Cross-functional skills FTW!

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#107
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we run the risk of creating separate product areas and none of them working well together or, have mandated open apis that _force_ products to integrate. That's what the web is today (mostly). Links, and embedable content (like frames). APIs and data. The reason companies don't do this - as demonstrated fairly recently by google with their removal of xmpp protocols from google chat - is that open apis prevent lock.…

> or, have mandated open apis that _force_ products to integrate. Yep, I mostly agree. Except, defining APIs is pretty much the realm of software engineering more than regulations. I mean, we don't want to have regulations that essentially say: "all companies selling platforms (god knows how we're going to accurately define what a platform is; let's ignore that for now) must support development against open apis such…

Building/construction regulation, electrical appliances code and compatibility etc works in real life. What makes software any different? It's an end result that regulators can mandate.

For example, the regulator can mandate that if you have an app that you sell (SaaS or not), you must also provide a way to export the data out in a machine readable, documented format.

Regulators can mandate that your app must have an api to insert compatible data into your app (like embedding). Regulators can mandate that your app must have an api to make it possible to embed into another app, or some other requirement.

It's up to society to make these regulations, just like how society mandates building safety code, electrical safety code etc. Companies won't do this willingly of course, but they can if their competition is also forced to (level playing field).

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#108
post #41
post #9

> it gave away its new product for no or low cost to existing clients, and bundled it with existing product lines. In a society with functional antitrust laws, such activity would be illegal. But alas. I find this statement highly suspect. What kind of world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas. I see Microsoft integrating Teams into their productivity product bundle as feature; not a bug. O…

> we run the risk of creating separate product areas and none of them working well together or, have mandated open apis that _force_ products to integrate. That's what the web is today (mostly). Links, and embedable content (like frames). APIs and data. The reason companies don't do this - as demonstrated fairly recently by google with their removal of xmpp protocols from google chat - is that open apis prevent lock.…

Sadly some websites forbids to post URL. IMO this is breaking the web.

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea how that happened, but one day, I found Teams suddenly automatically installed on my spouses computer; and not only auto-installed, but it auto-started on Windows start. How? Why? It was probably bundled with Office and/or Windows. MS got news-breaking fine for far less with Netscape before. But, nobody cares in 2020.

I find it weird how nobody complains about Apple bundling Messages or Safari.

They don't have monopoly. On (smart) phones or on computers.

And they are probably happy about that.

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you can just starve any competition when you are large enough. Amazon did that with a lot of competitors. On the console market you can it see very clearly, although here two behemoths are fighting it out. Following Microsofts own statements and that from their sales team, Teams was indeed free to lure more users. I don't think this particular issue is a problem, but the overall structure of tech…

> The problem is that you can just starve any competition when you are large enough. Amazon did that with a lot of competitors. Amazon did that by offering superior prices, customer service, product range, delivery, etc. That's only a problem if Amazon raises prices or cuts quality after it's competitors are vanquished. What we've observed is just the opposite. Amazon continue to relentlessly push lower prices, bette…

No, there are clearly other limits as well.

You can also see it with in retail and agriculture. Producers get exploited in the name of the customer. Retails wants as few suppliers as possible and left unchecked, it just reaches unsustainable proportions that certainly are unhealthy in a lot of ways.

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