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US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

bbc.com

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Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#101

Post by jsmith45 »

brudgers wrote: post #38

I am not a lawyer, but I have a long standing professional interest in the ADA. It ain't over until it has been to court. The hurdle for the new agency rule is to demonstrate that this is not a violation of civil rights under the American's with Disabilities Act. For the past thirty years (almost) that's tended to be a high bar. How high? Well emotional support animals were flying because the airline industry didn't…

The FAA rule here is based on the Air Carrier Access Act, which prohibits airlines from discriminating on the basis of disability, and pretty much leaves it up to the FAA to set applicable regulations.

The FAA is acting under the assumption that this act gives them the ability to regulate differently than the ADA. However many of the changes made in this ruling are actually making the regulations more aligned with DOJ's ADA regulations.

So if a court were to rule that the FAA needs to follow the ADA rules completely the main change would be eliminating the new optional (airlines choice) form requirement for service animals.

Emotional support animals have zero protection under the ADA. They are only recognized under the Fair Housing Act (and is mostly an artifact of caselaw there) and under the FAA regulations being revised here.

Unless/until courts rule that emotional support animals must be allowed as reasonable accomidations in public places under the ADA (rather than just under the Fair Housing Act) I expect this exclusion of ESAs will be allowed to stand.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#102

Post by colejohnson66 »

superdisk wrote: post #7
hpoe wrote: post #5

So something I only recently found out myself is that there is actual no real requirements in order to register an animal as an "emotional support animal", I found that out after my sister registered her dog as an emotional support animal to get around her apartments "no pets allowed" rule. Another interesting thing is that I have a friend who builds apartments in a college town for students. The apartments for years…

The emotional support loophole abuse has been going around on Facebook and Reddit as a trick to get your animal anywhere for a while now. Everyone knows the trick now and very few people care that they're abusing the system.

It’s pretty infuriating. Everyone abuses the system from people who don’t like walking using the electric carts at grocery stores to this. But everyone (who works) is afraid to confront the person abusing because they don’t want to be sued.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#103

Post by denimnerd46 »

macdamaniac wrote: post #86
meowfly wrote: post #8

I wish there were better options for people to travel with their pets over long distances. There are plenty of horror stories of pets who have died in cargo. I would be willing to pay for a seat, or even a row, to take my dog on a cross country flight. Setting aside the absurd cases, like emotional support peacocks, I think a lot of the emotional support animal shenanigans are simply people not wanting to cargo their…

I have a pretty unpopular take on this, being married to someone with severe pet allergies. That take is, dogs (and cats) have no place on an airplane, and responsible adults shouldn't get pets that they can't find sitters for or board while they are away. Planes are enclosed-air spaces, and the allergens from your dog make anyone with allergies miserable for the entire duration of the flight. Every single time we en…

I wanted to post the same comment but was afraid of the wrath of pet lovers. I have the same concerns regarding pet phobias and allergies.

And to your point about pet sitters or boarding. My family did not choose to get another pet at some point while I was growing up because the cost of boarding while traveling was just too much.

I wish pet culture would be dialed back a few notches on the dial.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#104

Post by jfengel »

HideousKojima wrote: post #81
vector_spaces wrote: post #79

Reading the comments on this thread is genuinely depressing. It's amazing how callous people can be to simply say "good" and move on, nevermind that people actually benefited massively from this and that most of those people used it in good faith, and likely did not attempt to bring ostriches and ponies aboard. Not to mention the comments that say something to the effect of "well even if it did help a few people, it…

Do you have any hard numbers on how many people used it in good faith vs. milked the system?

I don't really care how many people "milked the system". It's no skin off my nose that they got away with something.

The better question, I believe, is how often flights were disrupted by poorly trained animals. It certainly happened; how much? Then we can at least attempt to compare the benefits against the actual costs.

The impression I get is that a lot of people don't care about the costs. They simply care that there was a rule in place that people circumvented, and they resent that a lot.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#105

Post by 0xffff2 »

joegahona wrote: post #89
hpoe wrote: post #5

So something I only recently found out myself is that there is actual no real requirements in order to register an animal as an "emotional support animal", I found that out after my sister registered her dog as an emotional support animal to get around her apartments "no pets allowed" rule. Another interesting thing is that I have a friend who builds apartments in a college town for students. The apartments for years…

I have a huge beef with "pet rent," as it's charging people a non-refundable fee for an animal each month, simply for existing. If landlords would prefer their tenants not have pets, simply do not allow them.

Is my landlord charging me rent "a non-refundable fee for a human each month, simply for existing"? Why shouldn't a landlord offer the option if that's what they're comfortable with? Why is strictly less choice better for a pet owner?

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#106

Post by WalterBright »

wisty wrote: post #97
mwfunk wrote: post #70

I'm all in favor of people who need them having emotional support animals, but for as long as this has been a thing I have been totally shocked at how many people I personally know (who I thought were better people than this) completely abusing it to bring their pets with them everywhere (planes or anywhere else where you don't normally take pets). And joking about abusing the system, and joking about how awesome it…

There's also the grey area of self-medication. I generally trust people with physical disabilities to "self-medicate". If someone with a wheelchair says that something will help them live like a normal person, I'm inclined to think they're telling the truth. But an awful lot of mental health issues are ones where the people tend to make terrible choices when it comes to dealing with their mental health (not every dis…

> What about the cases where allowing people to use their mental health as an excuse is making their mental health worse?

Much as we imagine we know what's best for them, ultimately they have a right to their free choice.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#107

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #45
hpoe wrote: post #5

So something I only recently found out myself is that there is actual no real requirements in order to register an animal as an "emotional support animal", I found that out after my sister registered her dog as an emotional support animal to get around her apartments "no pets allowed" rule. Another interesting thing is that I have a friend who builds apartments in a college town for students. The apartments for years…

A bit of conflation in some of the comments but the "issue" is a bit of a loophole in the ADA. The ADA basically tries to minimize the burden of having a disability. So there are no licensing fees or registration or anything related to having a service animal by the government and as such businesses, landlords, etc. can't ask for something like a license or registration of a service animal as verification. The key di…

The no/registration piece makes 0 sense to me. Where I live, ALL dogs need to have a license and must have the tags to prove it - why not just add a certification to the tags that say it is a service animal?

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#108

Post by [deleted] »

cj wrote: post #93
mwfunk wrote: post #70

I'm all in favor of people who need them having emotional support animals, but for as long as this has been a thing I have been totally shocked at how many people I personally know (who I thought were better people than this) completely abusing it to bring their pets with them everywhere (planes or anywhere else where you don't normally take pets). And joking about abusing the system, and joking about how awesome it…

Edit: Removed comment, sparked unconstructive discussion.

[deleted]

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#109

Post by danbolt »

macdamaniac wrote: post #86
meowfly wrote: post #8

I wish there were better options for people to travel with their pets over long distances. There are plenty of horror stories of pets who have died in cargo. I would be willing to pay for a seat, or even a row, to take my dog on a cross country flight. Setting aside the absurd cases, like emotional support peacocks, I think a lot of the emotional support animal shenanigans are simply people not wanting to cargo their…

I have a pretty unpopular take on this, being married to someone with severe pet allergies. That take is, dogs (and cats) have no place on an airplane, and responsible adults shouldn't get pets that they can't find sitters for or board while they are away. Planes are enclosed-air spaces, and the allergens from your dog make anyone with allergies miserable for the entire duration of the flight. Every single time we en…

I get sick around people's dogs from allergies like your wife. Thanks for voicing your comment; I feel like pet owners usually don't take things very seriously when I talk about getting sick from dogs.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#110

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

cj wrote: post #93
mwfunk wrote: post #70

I'm all in favor of people who need them having emotional support animals, but for as long as this has been a thing I have been totally shocked at how many people I personally know (who I thought were better people than this) completely abusing it to bring their pets with them everywhere (planes or anywhere else where you don't normally take pets). And joking about abusing the system, and joking about how awesome it…

Edit: Removed comment, sparked unconstructive discussion.

> A lot of people are very attached to their pets, there's nothing wrong with that. Particularly single people living alone without kids (I fall in that bucket).

I'm in that category as well, but that by no means entitles me to abuse measures meant to help the genuinely disabled for my own convenience.

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