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How to Beat High Airfares

nytimes.com

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Re: How to Beat High Airfares

#101

Post by perlgeek »

hugh3 wrote: post #16
OstiaAntica wrote: post #5

This is unethical, basically he calls for jumping off of flights at layovers, which violates the terms of the ticket. There's even a security issue for the airlines, because they need to check if your bags are flying unaccompanied. Ironic that the NYT cracks down on people evading its paywall but is selling content on doing the same for air travel.

This guy was modded down, but are there ethical issues? If I'm booked through from SFO to DFW to MIA and I vanish at DFW, they're going to be calling my name over the PA system and trying to figure out whether or not to hold the DFW-MIA flight. This is especially true if my SFO-DFW leg is delayed -- my vanishing act might well wind up holding up a planeload of people as the airline figures out what the hell has happe…

What about just telling your airline that you won't be on the second flight? Then they don't have to wait for you.

Re: How to Beat High Airfares

#102

Post by dagw »

kijinbear wrote: post #67
rexreed wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At $4 a gallon, I might even challenge that. I recently calculated the cost of driving from DC to Boston, which is regularly a $240 or so ROUNDTRIP on many airlines. It takes 2 tanks of gas each way (about a 350 mile trip, 20 miles per gallon, 15 gallons per tank). The gas cost alone is close to $240. Even if you managed to burn 3 tanks instead of 4 during the trip, you're talking 45 gallons @ $4 a gallon, which is $…

Driving can still be cheaper than flying if you have 2 or more people traveling together. It would be tough to beat trains and buses, though.

It would be tough to beat trains and buses, though.

In the case of trains, it depends very much on where you are and where you're going. For example flying between basically any two European capital cities is almost always cheaper than taking the train.

Re: How to Beat High Airfares

#103

Post by jrockway »

hugh3 wrote: post #30
enjo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya there are. I've had planes take off fairly delayed because of folks doing just this. We just sit there as the airline tries to reconcile why the number of checked-in passengers doesn't match their passenger count. I'm guessing this is some sort of security rule? It doesn't matter tho, it absolutely sucks for everyone else on the flight.

I'm guessing this is some sort of security rule? It's a security rule if you have checked bags. If you're gonna blow up a plane they want to make sure you're at least onboard when you do it. Otherwise it's just a convenience thing -- they don't wanna close the doors and then have you show up two minutes later, because then you're a problem they have to deal with. The one time I actually did miss a connection I wound…

It's a security rule if you have checked bags.

No it's not. People fly on flights other than their bags all the time. If you check in and miss your flight, your bags often get there before you do and might even take a different routing. I missed a Southwest flight from MDW to PDX once. I ended up flying MDW-OAK-PDX, and my bags were in Portland long before I was.

There may be a rule for international flights, but I can't find a source on this. (The "you must use the lav in the cabin in which you are ticketed" rule only applies on international flights, for example. It may even only apply on international flights to the US, not from the US. After all, the 9/11 planes were international flights to the US. Oh wait...)

Re: How to Beat High Airfares

#104

Post by arethuza »

yardie wrote: post #95
somebear wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The times I've had a multi-leg flight (internationally), it's always been the same plane. The airline still makes everyone get off, bring in new clean blankets and pillows, and ensure that no one left anything behind. Feels a bit annoying when you just go back to the same seat, but I understand why.

Its a safety thing. No one (except crew) can be onboard the aircraft while its refueling.

I've been on flights between London and Mombasa in Kenya where the aircraft stopped to refuel in Luxor in Egypt and we didn't get off.

Re: How to Beat High Airfares

#105

Post by georgemcbay »

salvadors wrote: post #93
stellar678 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet again the word ethics comes up when consumers attempt to act in their own best interest in a given marketplace. Why should it be ethics when it's just economics? The airline isn't chastised for being unethical when they make decisions in their economic interest, why should the consumer be?

Whilst I agree with the principle, I think the argument runs quite simply: When you buy the ticket you agree to a set of accompanying conditions. Doing that knowing you're going to deliberately break some of them is dishonest and immoral.

When you buy the ticket you also expect a seat on the plane, but the airline has absolutely no problem with massively overselling a flight and bumping some people because, hey -- nothing personal, just economics!

Why should customers show the airlines any more courtesy than they are shown by the airlines in such matters?

Re: How to Beat High Airfares

#106

Post by roel_v »

stellar678 wrote: post #92
OstiaAntica wrote: post #5

This is unethical, basically he calls for jumping off of flights at layovers, which violates the terms of the ticket. There's even a security issue for the airlines, because they need to check if your bags are flying unaccompanied. Ironic that the NYT cracks down on people evading its paywall but is selling content on doing the same for air travel.

Yet again the word ethics comes up when consumers attempt to act in their own best interest in a given marketplace. Why should it be ethics when it's just economics? The airline isn't chastised for being unethical when they make decisions in their economic interest, why should the consumer be?

When you buy the ticket, you agree to the conditions of the deal.

When you walk away, you are one-sidedly breaking your agreement.

It's quite easy to see that two parties making a voluntary agreement != unethical, while one party breaking that agreement == unethical.

Re: How to Beat High Airfares

#107

Post by roel_v »

guelo wrote: post #50
OstiaAntica wrote: post #5

This is unethical, basically he calls for jumping off of flights at layovers, which violates the terms of the ticket. There's even a security issue for the airlines, because they need to check if your bags are flying unaccompanied. Ironic that the NYT cracks down on people evading its paywall but is selling content on doing the same for air travel.

I'm trying to comprehend how it is unethical to game a system that is constantly gaming its customers.

The unethical part is in willfully entering into a contract that you know in advance you are not going to uphold. Feel free to not enter the contract - but don't lie to get part of the benefit, and then sneak out of the rest.

Re: How to Beat High Airfares

#108

Post by mseebach »

georgemcbay wrote: post #105
salvadors wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst I agree with the principle, I think the argument runs quite simply: When you buy the ticket you agree to a set of accompanying conditions. Doing that knowing you're going to deliberately break some of them is dishonest and immoral.

When you buy the ticket you also expect a seat on the plane, but the airline has absolutely no problem with massively overselling a flight and bumping some people because, hey -- nothing personal, just economics! Why should customers show the airlines any more courtesy than they are shown by the airlines in such matters?

Because two wrongs doesn't make a right and because the terms you agree to allows the airline to overbook giving you a lower fare in return (at least some business class fares guarantee you a seat).

Re: How to Beat High Airfares

#109

Post by _delirium »

ghshephard wrote: post #60
_delirium wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that's one concern, but it's not entirely clear to me what the division of responsibility for those waiting-around passengers is. You might blame the passengers causing the problem, but as a passenger I also expect the airline to anticipate and work around any frequent sources of disruption. If it's something that happens often enough to actually be a problem, then it's an operational problem and they should…

In the 15 years I've been flying actively, i've only once been on a plane where I was told to return to my seat so they could do a count. I'm presuming that was a situation where someone hopped off mid travel. So, this is really a rare scenario. I think most people who do this are savvy, which means they realize they are about to screw an entire planeload of people - so it's a fairly rare endeavor. The fact that the…

Oh, yeah, I didn't even realize the other one happens. I've never had a connection where I didn't have to get off the plane, and usually I have to change planes. I think maybe once out of hundreds of flights have I got lucky enough that the connecting plane was actually the same plane I came in on. So I assumed the hidden-city ticketing was just people skipping the 2nd connecting flight, not literally exiting the plane at a layover.

Re: How to Beat High Airfares

#110

Post by sudonim »

salvadors wrote: post #94
kirubakaran wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent of the hypothetical, addressing its parent's thought about moral relativism, clearly supposes that you are inconveniencing people for monetary gain without possibility of compensating or otherwise being able to undo that. Your reply is the equivalent of answering "If a genie grants you one single wish, what would it be?" with "I'll wish for a million wishes" :-) And your reply subscribes to moral relativism to…

Yes, but if you base your life on those sorts of hypotheticals you can never do anything. If you push a button at a pedestrian crossing so you can cross the road, you're stopping potentially hundreds of cars just for your benefit. How much have you cost them? What if one of those is someone who's racing to the airport to catch a flight to see their mom who's about to pass away, and your decision to cross the road the…

At least in NYC, the pedestrian crossing buttons have no effect on the traffic lights. They computerized the traffic grid and them pesky pedestrians screw up the flow. So you can push all you want, but it wont speed things up.
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