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Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#101

Post by chordalkeyboard »

bigbubba wrote: post #96
echelon wrote: post #5

> Permafrost thaw in Siberia led to a 2018 anthrax outbreak and the death of 200,000 reindeer and a child. This is terrifying and not hypothetical.

Anthrax is found in the soil around the world and generally effects grazing animals like livestock, deer, etc. It is not contagious and isn't something you should lose sleep worrying about. It captures the public's attention because it has been weaponized. https://www.cdc.gov/anthrax/basics/index.html

> Although it is rare in the United States, people can get sick with anthrax if they come in contact with infected animals or contaminated animal products.

> Anthrax is not contagious, which means you can’t catch it like the cold or flu.

I'm not sure what the technical definition of "contagious" is here but I'm also not sure its helpful when you can catch the disease from an infected animal.

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#102

Post by irrational »

randmeerkat wrote: post #94
vagrantJin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> majority of the popular vote in the US voted for someone that does believe in science You're an optimistic one. They would have voted for a three legged donkey with a nose ring and gold tooth. As long as it wasn't DJT.

The thing that surprises me about modern politics is how much hate there is. I wonder if it was always this bad, or if the internet just shines a light on what was always there.

It really was not always like this. At all.

Some people blame the rise of 24 hours cable news channels. Others blame the rise of the Internet. Both of these have to do with disseminating more information to more people. Is it the fact that there is more information (quantity) or is the information itself (quality)?

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#104

Post by DanBC »

strogonoff wrote: post #61
trhway wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a good mask will help when you're occasionally visiting an infectious patient in a hospital. There is nothing, short of full bio-defense suit, that can help in the densely packed Moscow (or any other large Russian city) subway or bus, and the people in the country have no resources for any prolonged lockdowns. Add to that that the top people in Russia, like in any other country, receive highly personalized healthcare…

> There is nothing, short of full bio-defense suit, that can help in the densely packed Moscow (or any other large Russian city) subway or bus A mask is very effective and is worn for others, not yourself. At any point in time you might be carrying asymptomatic or not-yet-symptomatic COVID. Your mask prevents your saliva from flying in the air around you, protecting people near you and their parents/susceptible relat…

> A mask is very effective and is worn for others, not yourself

You have no evidence to support this point.

Scientists (WHO, CDC, Lancet, etc) don't say "masks are very effective", they say that masks _may_ help prevent the spread, but only if they're part of a package of preventative measures. They all say that distancing is much more important than mask wearing.

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#105

Post by dr_hooo »

trhway wrote: post #100
jakear wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many orders of magnitude fewer deaths, for one?

Orders fewer? Lets look at the Spanish flu in US - the US wasn't ravaged by WWI/revolutions/rebelions, didn't have systemic hunger, etc. and had time to and implemented some of those measures like quarantines/lockdowns/masks, so very reasonable to compare to today. Spanish flu killed 700K in US . Covid already 250K in US - even if we imagine that we're at the peak today, it still means end number like 500K.

I would only like to add that the US population was only around 100m around 1920, and travel would have been much more limited. But overall I agree that the worldwide handling in 2020 has been sobering.

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#106

Post by randmeerkat »

irrational wrote: post #102
randmeerkat wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that surprises me about modern politics is how much hate there is. I wonder if it was always this bad, or if the internet just shines a light on what was always there.

It really was not always like this. At all. Some people blame the rise of 24 hours cable news channels. Others blame the rise of the Internet. Both of these have to do with disseminating more information to more people. Is it the fact that there is more information (quantity) or is the information itself (quality)?

That’s good to know.

I don’t know, whatever it is, I really loathe it. It’s practically impossible to have a rational discussion about anything related to politics. Everything seems to degenerate into entrenched emotional arguments rather than discussing actual facts.

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#107

Post by bigbubba »

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #101
bigbubba wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthrax is found in the soil around the world and generally effects grazing animals like livestock, deer, etc. It is not contagious and isn't something you should lose sleep worrying about. It captures the public's attention because it has been weaponized. https://www.cdc.gov/anthrax/basics/index.html

> Although it is rare in the United States, people can get sick with anthrax if they come in contact with infected animals or contaminated animal products. > Anthrax is not contagious, which means you can’t catch it like the cold or flu. I'm not sure what the technical definition of "contagious" is here but I'm also not sure its helpful when you can catch the disease from an infected animal.

It basically means it won't spread through the population like the flu, which makes outbreaks easy to contain. Corpses need to be properly disposed of and you should avoid contact with the scabs or whatnot from people with anthrax lesions, but that's about it. There are cases of anthrax in livestock in America a few times a year but it's really not much cause for concern. It used to be far more common, but now livestock get vaccinated for it in regions where it's know to occur.

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#109

Post by _zg4q »

markdown wrote: post #98
CraigJPerry wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This is terrifying Why? It’s definitely concerning but is it in the same league as say the fact America appears to have lost desire to retain its leadership in the world? Are we ready for another country to decide to take a shot at that role? That sounds like a terrifying prospect to me because i just can’t see that happening without bloodshed. In years gone past, whatever the crisis, America would step up and lea…

> In years gone past, whatever the crisis, America would step up and lead. Many would argue that America was the one who created many of those crises in the first place. American capitalism has led the world to the brink of destruction by climate change, so a loss in status is absolutely warranted. > The really terrifying things don’t get much in the way of discourse. How can this possibly be in the same league as th…

> American capitalism has led the world to the brink of destruction by climate change

This sort of alarmist language makes it really difficult to take anything you said seriously. I'm fairly confident most people think climate change is concerning, but not "on the brink of destruction"

"American capitalism" is also responsible for the greatest reduction of poverty globally in all of human history.

> Nothing else pales in comparison to the destruction that's coming as a direct result of USA turning a blind eye to climate change.

Interesting, because the United States has actually been lowering carbon dioxide emissions, and total output absolutely pales in comparison to China which has seen nearly exponential growth [0].

This may be completely wrong, but it seems like a majority of climate change talk always revolves around how the US can be doing more, and rarely about what other countries can do.

Interesting how America is always to blame for the world's problems. I'm not saying America has been perfect, but it certainly does more good than bad.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_...

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#110

Post by jakear »

trhway wrote: post #100
jakear wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many orders of magnitude fewer deaths, for one?

Orders fewer? Lets look at the Spanish flu in US - the US wasn't ravaged by WWI/revolutions/rebelions, didn't have systemic hunger, etc. and had time to and implemented some of those measures like quarantines/lockdowns/masks, so very reasonable to compare to today. Spanish flu killed 700K in US . Covid already 250K in US - even if we imagine that we're at the peak today, it still means end number like 500K.

One interesting thing to consider is that the US isn’t actually the center of the world, so generalizing it’s reaction to the rest of the world makes no sense.

Looking at the world instead, COVID has killed just over a million people so far, and Spanish Flu is esimated to have killed anywhere between 17 and 100 million people, at a time when the world population was much less and travel was much harder. So yes, orders of magnitude.

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