Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? • Hacker News Board

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#101

Post by planetsmashr » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

smogcutter wrote: post #59

austincheney wrote: post #9

At the famous Battle of Agincourt peasants slaughtered thousands of knights. It was a decisive blood bath against a vastly superior force that allowed Henry V’s conquest of France. This is confirmed by eye witness records both French and English.

Ehhh yes, but this gets complicated and interesting in the details. Have you read Keegan on Agincourt? Short story, the popular version of French knights getting bogged down in the mud and shot to pieces with arrows is mostly false, but the English peasants did play a critical role. Far from being mowed down by longbowmen (although they absolutely would have taken a toll, especially on horses), the French cavalry was…

Interesting and enjoyable comment, thanks for sharing!

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#102

Post by zrobotics » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 4:32 AM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #83

dodobirdlord wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peasants by and large ate pretty poorly, and their diet consisted mostly of bread. They also had an unfortunate tendency to under-nourish children during lean times, because the adults still needed to be well fed so that they could farm. This is the reason why the average height of a European man has increased more than 6 inches since the Middle Ages.

Rich artisanal whole grain bread and slaughtered hogs and fish.

Slaughtered hogs? Maybe twice a year in a good year on feast days. Seriously, the parent comment was spot-on, by-and-large they lived on the edge of starvation. It wasn't salmon for lunch everyday (in most cases, even every month). >75% of their diet was bread.

Sure, 'artisinal'... have you ever chipped a tooth from poorly ground flour or rock inclusions? The bread was more wholesome than what is avaliable in the supermarket now, but how many people outside of developing countries eat a majority grain diet? Bread was the main foodstuff simply because grain stores much more easily than anything else. Salt-curing was only avaliable to the rich, since even salt was tremendously expensive.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#103

Post by egsmi » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 4:49 AM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #87

JshWright wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like a not-unreasonable comparison today would be "could a civilian kill an armored vehicle?" In that case, isn't the answer a definite yes?

Only if the civilian has a rpg or IED and then he probably would not be a civilian anymore, but a specialized guerilla fighter, if he manages to take out a modern tank.

A shovel can be a surprisingly effective weapon if properly employed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_trench

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#104

Post by somedudetbh » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 4:52 AM UTC

faanghacker wrote: post #95

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #17

In the Annals of St Bertin there's mention of an attack by the Danes (Vikings) on a region of Francia in 859 AD, where the peasants formed an association to defend themselves and fought off the Vikings, and drove them off without the assistance of the Carolingian rulers. This is reported by the Carolingians as brave but immoral, because Charlemagne had banned any such associations or militias, and military service wa…

Do you have a source for this? This sounds like a fishy story to me based on my understanding of medieval society: 1. Peasants are often called up for military duty as levies (conscripts), to supplement the knights and men-at-arms. Especially when there wasn't a standing army. 2. Authority wasn't so centralized -- these local matters would be the authority of local lords, not the king.

"In the Annals of St Bertin…"?

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#105

Post by samatman » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 4:56 AM UTC

faanghacker wrote: post #95

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #17

In the Annals of St Bertin there's mention of an attack by the Danes (Vikings) on a region of Francia in 859 AD, where the peasants formed an association to defend themselves and fought off the Vikings, and drove them off without the assistance of the Carolingian rulers. This is reported by the Carolingians as brave but immoral, because Charlemagne had banned any such associations or militias, and military service wa…

Do you have a source for this? This sounds like a fishy story to me based on my understanding of medieval society: 1. Peasants are often called up for military duty as levies (conscripts), to supplement the knights and men-at-arms. Especially when there wasn't a standing army. 2. Authority wasn't so centralized -- these local matters would be the authority of local lords, not the king.

The account you're replying to gave you a source: the Annals of St. Bertin.

It's available on Google Books, you have everything you need satisfy your own curiousity.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#106

Post by peterburkimsher » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 4:58 AM UTC

agency wrote: post #46

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #17

In the Annals of St Bertin there's mention of an attack by the Danes (Vikings) on a region of Francia in 859 AD, where the peasants formed an association to defend themselves and fought off the Vikings, and drove them off without the assistance of the Carolingian rulers. This is reported by the Carolingians as brave but immoral, because Charlemagne had banned any such associations or militias, and military service wa…

The more I hear about this feudalism thing the less I like it.

Supporters of feudalism are down for the Count.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#107

Post by jojobas » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 5:02 AM UTC

This is why the church banned the use of crossbows against Christians. It was deemed unfair for a peasant to instantly kill someone who trained all his life.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#108

Post by jml7c5 » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 5:03 AM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #17

In the Annals of St Bertin there's mention of an attack by the Danes (Vikings) on a region of Francia in 859 AD, where the peasants formed an association to defend themselves and fought off the Vikings, and drove them off without the assistance of the Carolingian rulers. This is reported by the Carolingians as brave but immoral, because Charlemagne had banned any such associations or militias, and military service wa…

Do you have more detail on this? Is there supporting detail from other sources? It's not clear from my brief reading that the association was conclusively for self-defense and held no insurrectionary or political aspect.

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#109

Post by miles » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 5:05 AM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #17

In the Annals of St Bertin there's mention of an attack by the Danes (Vikings) on a region of Francia in 859 AD, where the peasants formed an association to defend themselves and fought off the Vikings, and drove them off without the assistance of the Carolingian rulers. This is reported by the Carolingians as brave but immoral, because Charlemagne had banned any such associations or militias, and military service wa…

> the peasants formed an association to defend themselves and fought off the Vikings ... military service was reserved for aristocrats only ... The response of the Frankish leadership was to come in and massacre the peasants

Strange that the peasants could fight back a group of Vikings ("the toughest warriors ever" according to National Geographic[0]) but not a bunch of aristocrats.

[0] https://www.vikingmartialarts.com/vikingculture/2018/4/4/vik...

Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?

#110

Post by blandflakes » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 5:08 AM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #94

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #17

In the Annals of St Bertin there's mention of an attack by the Danes (Vikings) on a region of Francia in 859 AD, where the peasants formed an association to defend themselves and fought off the Vikings, and drove them off without the assistance of the Carolingian rulers. This is reported by the Carolingians as brave but immoral, because Charlemagne had banned any such associations or militias, and military service wa…

I wonder if one day in the distant future, humans will each have their own autonomous mutually assured destruction devices hovering around them at all times, almost like a guardian angel. It would even the playing field in some ways.

You might like Vernor Vinge's work. This is briefly touched on in "Marooned in Realtime", and I suspect a prior novel, "The Peace War" is similarly interesting.